Part of the Khronos Group
OpenGL.org

The Industry's Foundation for High Performance Graphics

from games to virtual reality, mobile phones to supercomputers

Page 95 of 173 FirstFirst ... 45859394959697105145 ... LastLast
Results 941 to 950 of 1724

Thread: OpenGL 3 Updates

  1. #941
    Senior Member OpenGL Pro dletozeun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    FRANCE
    Posts
    1,367

    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by knackered
    In this case you should have an automatic way of building different instances of the shader with constants instead of variables. There's always work-arounds for these things, and they're usually much faster executing than the naive approach.
    Yes, it is a good solution, but I guess that it would work in shaders where array indexes depend on uniform or attribute variables or even on a texture lookup. I am sure that it would be possible to use multiple shaders when the array indexes are completely indeterminate out of the shader.

  2. #942
    Senior Member OpenGL Guru knackered's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,833

    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    you could always pass your 'arrays' as textures, of course.

  3. #943
    Advanced Member Frequent Contributor cass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Austin, TX, USA
    Posts
    913

    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates


    I don't have any problem with GLSL's shading language other than that it is specific to GL.

    The GLSL runtime API is way more indirect than it needs to be for high performance use. I think the language would have been easier to adopt if it had been a text drop-in replacement for ASM shaders. Instead, you need to learn a whole new nomenclature for everything.

    That was an example of shooting the useful (asm) api path in the head for an unproven and frankly somewhat icky (GLSL) api path that was considered cleaner and better.
    Cass Everitt -- cass@xyzw.us

  4. #944
    Junior Member Regular Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    211

    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by zed
    but we already have this 'clean' api, as in opengl2.0 es, perhaps nvidia/amd should be looking at releasing opengles32.dll drivers?
    GL2es does seem like a cleaner version of GL2. I personally don't know what might limit it from being used on a PC. Possibly they're taking what they learned with ES and doing that to GL3?

    true gl3 is more than just a cleanup but IMO its not really a huge difference.
    I'll withhold such declarations until we learn what the actual differences will be.

    look at d3d10 how many games are pure d3d10?
    Once again, GL3 is not about D3D10 features.

    i believe theres a major change in graphics hardware happening (becoming like CPUs/CUDA/openCL etc) do we really want something set in stone now, when an earthquake is a bout to happen?
    CUDA/OpenCL should have no affect on OpenGL. Regardless of their computation-capability similarities, GL will always be a rendering/graphics API, not a computational API.

  5. #945
    Senior Member OpenGL Guru zed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    S41.16.25 E173.16.21
    Posts
    2,407

    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by pudman
    CUDA/OpenCL should have no affect on OpenGL. Regardless of their computation-capability similarities, GL will always be a rendering/graphics API, not a computational API.
    ogl has become more general purpose over the years + no doubt the trend will continue.
    look at OpenGL es 2.0 it's already gotten rid of lots of rendering stuff eg lighting/transformation etc because the programmer can do this in the shader (+ with a lot more flexibility besides) i can even see them being able to read from the framebuffer ( not glReadPixels, hmmm does this invalidate some timetravel law)
    Once again, GL3 is not about D3D10 features.
    true be u can learn from the failure of d3d10, whilst party due to vista only, i believe its also cause it doesnt offer that much more to the programmer, it shows the dangers of jumping in to quick (d3d11 is just around the corner, no doubt invalidating all d3d10 code)

    ATM ild like to see ogl es on the desktop, this way our apps can run on the pc/iphone etc with no code changes at all.
    the drivers should be more stable + perhaps even quicker (with all the fluff removed), wouldnt that make a lot of us (game orientated ppl) happier than ogl3.0?

  6. #946

    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by zed
    look at d3d10 how many games are pure d3d10? i dont think theres any, how many are planned (+ its been out for ove a year now) are there any?
    Believe it or not, Microsoft actually suggests making games that still can work using DirectX 9 (through they should be able to use DirectX 10 when possible). This may be part because the "everybody switch to Vista" idea failed, but it may be as well because the 360 isn't capable of DirectX 10 (probably it could be done but would run too slow to be feasible - I have to check Alby's DX10 driver though to see if this is false).

  7. #947
    Junior Member Regular Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    211

    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    ogl has become more general purpose over the years + no doubt the trend will continue.
    That still has no bearing on the relationship between OpenGL and CUDA/OpenCL. Chances are that a starting point for OpenCL is CUDA. What similarities are there between OpenGL and CUDA? Or better, what feature of CUDA do you think should be a core part of GL?

    true be u can learn from the failure of d3d10, whilst party due to vista only, i believe its also cause it doesnt offer that much more to the programmer, it shows the dangers of jumping in to quick (d3d11 is just around the corner, no doubt invalidating all d3d10 code)
    GL3 is not going to be Vista only, nor will there be a GL4 in two years that rewrites the API. Whether or not it offers significant advantage over GL2 we'll hopefully discover at SIGGRAPH (my faith what was presented in the Pipeline has eroded). Therefore I don't see your comparison as valid.

    Sure, it will be a new API and there will be a gradual uptake of usage. But so what? That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

    the drivers should be more stable + perhaps even quicker (with all the fluff removed), wouldnt that make a lot of us (game orientated ppl) happier than ogl3.0?
    What if GL3 drivers proved more stable than GL2 drivers? What if they're planning a GL ES 3.0?

  8. #948
    Advanced Member Frequent Contributor Mars_999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Sioux Falls, SD, USA
    Posts
    519

    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by knackered
    Quote Originally Posted by dletozeun
    I agree. One major problem I had with glsl is indexing arrays with variables. Just not being allowed to index arrays in a loop with a variable without unroll it is unusable. This could work on nvidia cards using special profiles but on some ATIs this not allowed, too bad...
    If they don't allow it then you should be glad, because their implementation is obviously not going to be very fast anyway. In this case you should have an automatic way of building different instances of the shader with constants instead of variables. There's always work-arounds for these things, and they're usually much faster executing than the naive approach.
    Hence why unrolling the loop is faster, I used loops on my GF7? cards not sure I have tried it on my GF8 card, but I can tell you there was a slow down using loops.

  9. #949
    Senior Member OpenGL Guru knackered's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,833

    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    only loops involving uniforms - constants (literals/#defines) controlled loops are just as fast as unrolled loops on every nvidia card I've used them on. Having said that, there was a weird GLSL compiler bug a while ago that required me to unroll a loop just to get the damn thing working.

  10. #950
    Senior Member OpenGL Guru zed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    S41.16.25 E173.16.21
    Posts
    2,407

    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    That still has no bearing on the relationship between OpenGL and CUDA/OpenCL. Chances are that a starting point for OpenCL is CUDA. What similarities are there between OpenGL and CUDA? Or better, what feature of CUDA do you think should be a core part of GL?
    actually CUDA doesnt go far enuf, eg it doesnt support recursion, now its pretty obvious in a year or two this limitation will be removed. the line between cpus/gpus is becoming blurred + ultimately disappear, GL3 should aim for this (futureproof) make it so u can do graphics without restrictions like u can on the CPU, we dont want them having to bring out gl4.0 in a couple of years time

    Sure, it will be a new API and there will be a gradual uptake of usage. But so what? That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done
    What if GL3 drivers proved more stable than GL2 drivers? What if they're planning a GL ES 3.0?
    like the analogy i gave u shouldnt build in the midst of an earthquake.
    im sure the main thing wanted by GL users with opengl3.0 is a cleanup/removal of the legacy stuff.
    ogles has this already, thus personally i believe is an ideal stopgap + will satisfy a lot of punters

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •