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View Full Version : Need some Help with old games rendered in OpenGL



x58haze
09-27-2017, 10:42 PM
Hello everyone, nice too met you, i'm Yuriy i'm a guy from south america Venezuela that is so friendly and humble, and i was wondering if this wonderful community can at least help me or guidance me, to solved my problem or at least to learn something new about how OPEN GL or newer hardware structures works or communicate with old engine games. Please bear in mind my English is not that good, i did learn english just a little bit since 2006 MMORPGS ^^ , well without saying anything cheese haha lets start:

My problem is that, I used to play competitive games such counter strike back in 2004-2009 with an AMD cpu ahtlon xp 1800 and nvidia fx 5200, if if remember back in that time my game was so smooth even at 75-100 fps, i don't know if was because of D3D renders or the open gl was very nice with that old hardware that was built on processor with instructions 32bit/64 bit, but the thing the magic dissaparead after i moved on from that old amd ahtlon to: Intel msi H55-e33 and i3 cpu plus my 9600 gt nvidia, things start to get like worse... Like visual lag... even at 100fps, was like poor render, but it stars in 2009, but them again i changes my pc i upgraded in 2011-2013 with a GTX 580+ EVGA ftw x58 with i7 920 bloomson, and yeah game becomes like slightly 10% worse than before. now in 2017 i was gifted by a friends with a

EVGA GTX 1060 gb, and ryzen cpu 5 1600 3.2, and ddr4 patriot 2x4 QVL by my motherboard Asrock ab350 fatality k4 gamming, now the thing, games perform equal or same that my old MSI-h55m or x58 motherboard, so my questio is: Does newer hardwared that are built in 64 processor instructions are not fully compatible with 32 bits? forgive me if im being ignorant or noob :( just wanted to know

Also i never have before tweak or touched AMD BIOS, i followed some guides out there from guru3d but is like there is no web-site over the internet that can cover the whole AMD BIOS features like tweaks or what so ever, also I tried many tools like Intel Compiler patch 1.0, to dispatch Genuine intel in dll windows or .exe and thats make thigs more fluent, but that didn't work in Hal life or counter strike 1.6 because those .exe files were below 500 kb file.. and that program just grab 500kb file

Another thing is that i have tried Windows 7 64 bit on Ryzen, Windows 10 1607 anniversary (currently the best one) tried the creator 1703<-- very glitchy and not so good..
Tried deleting and removing bloatwares, tried to install chipset drivers, then nvidia drivers, then lan, realtek, tried to use some generic audio from Windows, many tweaks inside Windows to keep thigns smooth and it doesn't seems to help. I have also a Syncmaster t200g 1680x1050 60hz that can up to 75hz by overclocking, and 2ms ghosting, but im telling you back in 2005-2009 my crt monitor i was playing on 72-75 hz, also tried some old LCd in 2009 and games keeps smoother

So my question is what can i do :(? i'm willing to post Pictures, or put here my BIOS compressed as 7zip, so you can give me a hand to properly cfg bios? maybe that can cure a little be my problems? or maybe is there something out there that i can do, to improve OpengL render in Cs 1.6 ? because Direct 3d use to be more enjoyeable at least in 2009.

Thanks alot This is my bios.7zp with 44 pictures in case you want to give a look.
I really appreciate your effort Opengl team/community, this can sound kinda pathetic or crazy but, by having a good game play or desktop experience make me so happy and feel more comfortable, because i really love to learn every day, new things about pc, how to fix things, viruses, dpc latencies, stuff like that, like pc enthusiasm, I really cannot enjoys games like i used to do, even games such dota2 at high fps, or hereos of the storm i cannot properly throw a stun or what so ever u.u, but this problem is more affected in 32 bits games with opengl render i guess.


Without any further to say, thanks alot! I uploaded my bios to mediafire
http://www.mediafire.com/file/264dbklkv5a3dq5/MyBiosPicturesDefault.7z

x58haze
09-28-2017, 03:14 PM
Bumb Please!

Dark Photon
09-30-2017, 11:09 AM
There's not really much folks can do here. You've given a lot of info, but if I boil it down it basically amounts to:

Back in 2009, you were happy with Counterstrike performance. However nowadays, after everything has been changed (CPU, GPU, memory, motherboard, other hardware, OS, drivers, etc.), the performance is about the same or leaves you disappointed in some way.

It's good that you really love to learn, because what it sounds like you need to do is learn how to identify performance bottlenecks on your system. There are quite a few sites out there that will help you do this, and lots of tools you can use (some built into Windows; many that are free add-on tools) to benchmark specific aspects of your system's performance and isolate bottlenecks when you experience them. Get familiar with tools like Performance Monitor, Process Explorer, and GPUShark.

That said, if for you it's all about Counterstrike performance, I would start with that. Identify a problem (a performance bottleneck) and then research what you can do to determine its root cause. If it happens to be something related to OpenGL specifically, feel free to post your question here.

It's worth websearching the game you're interested in with "performance" or "performance problem" and see what folks are saying. That may give you a head-start looking for clues. For instance, if you search for "Counterstrike performance", you'll find lots of folks talking about how they have problems with this game being CPU limited on their computer. You can see if that's possibly your problem too by looking at CPU load while you're running the game and seeing if you're pegging a core at 100%.

As far as OpenGL performance, install the latest NVidia drivers, and get familiar with the settings in the NVidia Control Panel. There are a number of GPU settings with which to tune the performance and latency of GPU rendering through the NVidia GL driver. When you're doing the CPU load test (see above), make sure you don't have Frame Sync set to OFF or Fast Sync (as with these you should expect to see your CPU pegged).

x58haze
10-03-2017, 12:17 PM
There's not really much folks can do here. You've given a lot of info, but if I boil it down it basically amounts to:

Back in 2009, you were happy with Counterstrike performance. However nowadays, after everything has been changed (CPU, GPU, memory, motherboard, other hardware, OS, drivers, etc.), the performance is about the same or leaves you disappointed in some way.

It's good that you really love to learn, because what it sounds like you need to do is learn how to identify performance bottlenecks on your system. There are quite a few sites out there that will help you do this, and lots of tools you can use (some built into Windows; many that are free add-on tools) to benchmark specific aspects of your system's performance and isolate bottlenecks when you experience them. Get familiar with tools like Performance Monitor, Process Explorer, and GPUShark.

That said, if for you it's all about Counterstrike performance, I would start with that. Identify a problem (a performance bottleneck) and then research what you can do to determine its root cause. If it happens to be something related to OpenGL specifically, feel free to post your question here.

It's worth websearching the game you're interested in with "performance" or "performance problem" and see what folks are saying. That may give you a head-start looking for clues. For instance, if you search for "Counterstrike performance", you'll find lots of folks talking about how they have problems with this game being CPU limited on their computer. You can see if that's possibly your problem too by looking at CPU load while you're running the game and seeing if you're pegging a core at 100%.

As far as OpenGL performance, install the latest NVidia drivers, and get familiar with the settings in the NVidia Control Panel. There are a number of GPU settings with which to tune the performance and latency of GPU rendering through the NVidia GL driver. When you're doing the CPU load test (see above), make sure you don't have Frame Sync set to OFF or Fast Sync (as with these you should expect to see your CPU pegged).

Hello thanks for answer me and sorry for being late, i was doing some research, and also i started to download all netframeworks the thing is it seems to improve game performance when installing netframe work 1.0, i dont know if that placebo but i can feel a better or responsive gaming experience, my question is is there any software from microsoft to detect what netframe works are missing for my windows, because it is very tiring to Download one by one and don't work :c

Dark Photon
10-03-2017, 05:53 PM
... is there any software from microsoft to detect what netframe works are missing for my windows, because it is very tiring to Download one by one and don't work :c

Yeah, those things are a pain, aren't they.

I rarely boot into Windows anymore, but IIRC this tool was useful to enumerate 1) what's installed, and 2) make it easy to install other versions if/when needed:

* Asoft .NET Version Detector (http://www.asoft.be/prod_netver.html)

Be sure to run a virus scan on it first.

mhagain
10-03-2017, 06:31 PM
I would suggest this is placebo, unfortunately.

Your old PC had a single-core CPU whereas your new PCs all have multi-core CPUs. Older games sometimes don't run well on multi-core and running them on a single core instead is often beneficial. That's the first thing I'd try.

x58haze
10-03-2017, 06:47 PM
Yeah, those things are a pain, aren't they.

I rarely boot into Windows anymore, but IIRC this tool was useful to enumerate 1) what's installed, and 2) make it easy to install other versions if/when needed:

* Asoft .NET Version Detector (http://www.asoft.be/prod_netver.html)

Be sure to run a virus scan on it first.

Hello thanks for your comment, and yes Windows is a pain in the ....
But yeah i did use that software to detect what was missing and was the 1.0 i had to use command prompt+ xml2msi.exe codes in order to remove the limit of 64 bit, i found that in this post (https://www.instructables.com/id/Install-NET-Framework-10-on-64-bit-Windows/)
I did success at the begin was kind hard because i didn't get it, but finally i made to install the 1.0 but now the 4.0 is missing, also i downloaded a tool from Microsoft which listed many Frameworks to install and i'm missing the version 4.5.2 something like that but when i hit download+install it doesn't seems to install actually..


Look this is my current Asoft version Detector:

https://image.prntscr.com/image/AoQT_QKgRkaQ2uiile2FeQ.png

<32Bit>
1.0.3705.6060
->C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.0.3705
1.1.4322.2032
->C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.1.4322
2.0.50727.8766
->C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727
4.7.2110.0
->C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319

<64Bit>
2.0.50727.8766
->C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework64\v2.0.50727
4.7.2110.0
->C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework64\v4.0.30319

< Installed .NET Frameworks >
.NET FW 1.0 (CLR:1.0)
.NET FW 1.1 SP 1 (CLR:1.1)
.NET FW 2.0 SP 2 (CLR:2.0)
.NET FW 3.0 SP 2 (CLR:2.0)
.NET FW 3.5 SP 1 (CLR:2.0)
.NET FW 4.6.2 General release (CLR:4.0)
.NET FW 4.7 General release (CLR:4.0)

< Installed Updates >
.NETFramework
Microsoft .NET Framework 4 Client Profile
KB2468871
KB2468871v2
KB2478063
KB2533523
KB2544514
KB2600211
KB2600217
Microsoft .NET Framework 4 Extended
KB2468871
KB2468871v2
KB2478063
KB2533523
KB2544514
KB2600211
KB2600217
KB2468871
KB2468871v2
KB2478063
KB2533523
KB2544514
KB2600211
KB2600217

< Installed Languages 3.0>
English - United States
< Installed Languages 3.5.x>
English - United States
< Installed Languages 4.x>
English - United States



And this is the Program that i tell you about Window Listing Frame/works and servers stuff to download
https://image.prntscr.com/image/UuRM-E6qR4qfm9bKF0Z6Ng.png

And when hitting add+install:
https://image.prntscr.com/image/N53TOQMmQPqW7Kfvn6xKkA.png

When installing and sucess:
https://image.prntscr.com/image/qO-kKbPUTXe-6G2KOA_6Qw.png

Finish:
https://image.prntscr.com/image/J64G27hURa2j7JUJvTOe-w.png


Now is curious there is not Netframework 4.5.2 nowhere.... also when open back the Web Platform microsot 5.0 it still showing that there is avalaible netframework 4.5.2 not installed.
The software/programs installed:
https://image.prntscr.com/image/m2fbEmo1QdqBhXhkVf9EtQ.png

Updates installed, this is windows 10 1607 Anniversary i find this Windows much better than the creator thats very glitchy..



And yeah i was wondering if im missing more of Visual CC++ packages that can help games perform, or if im missing more netframe works? or maybe, necessary files that are like opengl? or crazy things that was super normal to be installed in old machines back in 2000, that was so necessary to run old games perfectly? i'm really curious, i'm so excited about pc things n.n

And lastly this the route of Asoft.Net version detector where it checks the current frameworks.
Framework folder in Windows i guess 32 bit:



WEll thats all sorry for bother with many pictures and text, but i refuse to use cheat in games, i really love to have the most clear pictures, responsiveness systems, that's mean much to me, i know i may sound like geek or nerdy but i dont care n.n xD

x58haze
10-03-2017, 06:48 PM
Had to make a second post because i only was avalaible to up 6 pictures:

Updates installed, this is windows 10 1607 Anniversary i find this Windows much better than the creator thats very glitchy..
https://image.prntscr.com/image/noAG-jShQ_OVrplQNkKr2w.png


And lastly this the route of Asoft.Net version detector where it checks the current frameworks.
Framework folder in Windows i guess 32/64 bit:
32 bit
https://image.prntscr.com/image/X3t4aqJBSLC-A7WB8FNQ2Q.png

64bit
https://image.prntscr.com/image/JaCq2Gv3R5aZjMFUIbA0ug.png

x58haze
10-03-2017, 06:57 PM
@mhagain

I have tried already to disable SMT (simultaneous multicore threading) and run cs 1.6 with one core, but when i run on it RIVATUNER STADISTICS with monitoring the 6 physical cpu from the ryzen 5 1600 smt off total 6 cores
i can tell that even by forcing hl.exe or cs 1.6 to 1 single core, i can tell how the cpu05 or cpu 04 or cpu 03 gets like 5% somethings 10% or 7% and cpu core 0 gets 90-100%.... :/

Defiant65
10-04-2017, 12:08 AM
Try installing .NET Framework v4.7. It's just an updated v4.5.2, anyway, and will run apps developed for v4.5.2.

mhagain
10-04-2017, 02:28 AM
i can tell that even by forcing hl.exe or cs 1.6 to 1 single core, i can tell how the cpu05 or cpu 04 or cpu 03 gets like 5% somethings 10% or 7% and cpu core 0 gets 90-100%.... :/

100% usage on one core is normal; that's just a busy-wait loop and doesn't indicate bad performance - any busy-wait loop will give you that, no matter how much (or how little) work it does.

The low usage on the other cores is probably because the GL, sound or other driver(s) are multithreaded.

What I'm interested in is, with this setup, how gameplay is compared to (1) your old Athlon, and (2) your newer PCs running as normal.

Silence
10-04-2017, 02:29 AM
@mhagain

I have tried already to disable SMT (simultaneous multicore threading) and run cs 1.6 with one core, but when i run on it RIVATUNER STADISTICS with monitoring the 6 physical cpu from the ryzen 5 1600 smt off total 6 cores
i can tell that even by forcing hl.exe or cs 1.6 to 1 single core, i can tell how the cpu05 or cpu 04 or cpu 03 gets like 5% somethings 10% or 7% and cpu core 0 gets 90-100%.... :/

This is how the OS scheduler is working. You cannot do anything against that, except if you're able to configure your OS to only run tasks in the same hardware core... which I doubt it is possible.
Anyway I don't think that your issue is related to this.

Silence
10-04-2017, 02:35 AM
To try to give you some hints about your issues:

Your problem might just come from how your game was developed. I mean their main loop (the one looping all the time, checking keyboard inputs, updating the game and rendering it) might have been optimized for computers of this age.
If you can access it, you might try to edit the game configuration file and modify the tick count, or other counters, and see if that could change things.

EDIT: if for example they expect some operation to always take at least several microseconds, but with a new hardware it take less than 1 microsecond, and if they did not use timing able to proceed at the nanosecond level, then for sure the game will behave very bad: players will appear not to move or so on.

x58haze
10-04-2017, 02:58 PM
To try to give you some hints about your issues:

Your problem might just come from how your game was developed. I mean their main loop (the one looping all the time, checking keyboard inputs, updating the game and rendering it) might have been optimized for computers of this age.
If you can access it, you might try to edit the game configuration file and modify the tick count, or other counters, and see if that could change things.

EDIT: if for example they expect some operation to always take at least several microseconds, but with a new hardware it take less than 1 microsecond, and if they did not use timing able to proceed at the nanosecond level, then for sure the game will behave very bad: players will appear not to move or so on.

This is so interesting omg :O, how to check the main loop from the game? because there are a couple of weird files or extensions that i don't know xd
This is the files that came with counter strike or hl.exe: also when going to CS'STRIKE folder there is 2 folders with cl_dlls (client dll) and other folders with DLLS name i will attachedo one picture
https://image.prntscr.com/image/J0k_rE7FSJu2pClGNViYDQ.png


also i have tried to reduce repeat rate keys to my keyboard through windows to have less input lag or annoying latency to my mouse, trying things like that , but yeah this is very annoying, wish i can go more deep, something i have notice while in game by using only 6 physical cores with multi-threading off, is that some servers when playing counter strike 1.6 when pressing STATS in console, it says cpu 200, sometimes 180, and when this happen, i can feel the game more fast than usual and i dont like, them i just when to task manager and disable 1 or 2 cores or 3 cores to get the cpu at 100-120 and i up the priority of hl.exe to above normal or below normal, but this is not a fix, because i have start the game with one single core..... and it seems that certains servers are differents... so i dont think this correct at all

also i always en sure to disable COOL-Quiet amd features in bios, C6 state, and all c states cores, wish i can do more, thanks for your help, im so happy to read your comment, if you can help me more i will be so happy and grateful, and of course im happy too with the others members of Open-gl community helping me, ty

x58haze
10-04-2017, 03:04 PM
100% usage on one core is normal; that's just a busy-wait loop and doesn't indicate bad performance - any busy-wait loop will give you that, no matter how much (or how little) work it does.

The low usage on the other cores is probably because the GL, sound or other driver(s) are multithreaded.

What I'm interested in is, with this setup, how gameplay is compared to (1) your old Athlon, and (2) your newer PCs running as normal.


Well i would love to know that too, because i don't have that pc anymore :/

And yeah as i said: i force Hl.exe before running the game, to run in Single-core and yeah you can tell that even by forcing to 1 one core, it seems to use others cores, maybe the Rivatuner the drivers which contains the monitoring cpu, has some multi-threading itself that cause that thing.. or maybe not

i answered to silence that i have notice something with the cpu affinity cores when playing in certains servers... like in game cpu goes from 100 to 200 steady and game feel more fast, and uncontrol-able shoots, is not throttling like those game thats you set fps above 60 and characters move like sonic, no,no this is just like game seems to be more responsiveness but not acuraccy is crazy to play that, but i can fix when untick some cores, but when you untick cores is hard to put back because game seems to bug.. but i dont think this is the real problem, maybe theres is something there that i'm missing like Silence says: Maybe the game have a old Thick Loop configured compared to newer hardware which have a fast thick loop, and thats the cause of way old games doesn't seems to perform properly, and he claims that maybe there should be a way to config that file in our game-folders, but im curious :O sorry for my English and thanks again.

x58haze
10-05-2017, 09:01 PM
bump :( help

Dark Photon
10-06-2017, 06:40 AM
So far, this thread doesn't really seem to have anything to do with OpenGL. I think your best bet is to find some forums for gamers trying to optimize Counterstrike or Halflife performance. You'll probably find more useful tips there.

Dmitry_Rogov
10-17-2017, 05:35 AM
I'm not sure if it can help, but hope so! Try to build up a gaming machine on Raspberry Pi. For better performance, you can even enable OpenGL driver on Raspbian. I've found out how - https://eltechs.com/how-to-enable-opengl-on-raspberry-pi/