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John Jenkins
09-27-2002, 01:43 PM
The more I learn about OpenGL the more I realize that I need to find some math help to speed me along.

Dan82181
09-27-2002, 01:45 PM
Which math? Graphics mathalgorithms or linear algebra or both?

Dan

John Jenkins
09-27-2002, 01:49 PM
Any book that has made drawing and manipulating objects on the screen easier.

pkaler
09-27-2002, 02:23 PM
I recommend Geometric Tools for Computer Grahpics by Phil Schneider & Dave Eberly. http://www.mkp.com/books_catalog/catalog.asp?ISBN=1-55860-594-0 http://www.addall.com/New/submitNew.cgi?type=ISBN&query=1-55860-594-0
I'm a little biased though since I was one of the reviewers. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by PK (edited 09-27-2002).]

Dan82181
09-27-2002, 02:32 PM
Well, I just took linear algebra this past semester, the book we used was "Linear Algebra and Its Applications" by Lay. It was a pretty decent book, I learned a little bit, but I already had a good background in linear algebra with my graphics work I did before the class. I mostly learned about eigen vectors and terminology. If you already know alot about linear algebra, then this book should do nicely...


http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=68LN2ZN3CP&isb n=083113111X (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=68LN2ZN3CP&isbn=083113111X)

I have this book, it is geared a little bit more towards geometry, but the beginning of the book has alot of the important stuff you want out of linear algebra.


http://search.barnesandnoble.com/textboo...isbn=0023548568 (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/textbooks/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=68LN2ZN3CP&isbn=0023548568)

This one is one of the better graphics books I've read. It's a text book, has some OpenGL stuff in it, and goes over alot of interesting stuff.

Dan

[This message has been edited by Dan82181 (edited 09-27-2002).]

SirKnight
09-29-2002, 02:06 PM
Real-Time Rendering (1st or 2nd ed) is a VERY good book. Um...Computer Graphics: Principles and Practice by Foley and van Dam is a good but quite expensive book. Well Real-Time rendering isnt cheap either. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif I have 3D Computer Graphics by Alan Watt. It's good but most of it is about ray tracing and stuff. Mostly non-realtime rendering. Good nonetheless though. Also another one you may be interested in (i know i am, i plan on getting this book for sure) is Mathematics for 3D Game Programming & Computer Graphics. I looked through it at a book store and I really liked what I saw. DEFINITELY check this book out before you make a for sure purchase on any book.

-SirKnight

cass
09-29-2002, 03:27 PM
Here are two I really like:

Real-Time Rendering http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=554S30FMLI&isbn=1568811829

Mathematics for 3D Game Programming and Computer Graphics http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=554S30FMLI&isbn=1584500379

vshader
09-29-2002, 08:14 PM
looking at my library and basing the selection on covers getting ragged, coffee stains and falling-apart from over-use, the winners are:

"Advanced Animation and Rendering Techniques", Alan Watt (and Mark Watt) - apparently this is very similar to his "3D Computer Graphics", which doesn't seem to be available here.

the openGL red book.

"Computer Graphics" by Foley and van Dam.

ToolChest
09-30-2002, 05:40 AM
This is the only one I use consistently...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...609567?v=glance (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1584500379/ref=pd_sim_books/104-6306395-0609567?v=glance)

V-man
09-30-2002, 07:51 AM
There are a few like Game programming gems, Realtime Renderering, ...

I recommend you check out what books are being used in college/university for lin alg + calculus. I still have my Linear Alg from Howard Anton (expensive), Multivariable calculus, University Physics.

The Nurbs Book was a sweet one.
There was another about algorithms (algorithm soup or cookbook??).

Later,
V-man

V-man
09-30-2002, 07:55 AM
>>>>"Advanced Animation and Rendering Techniques", Alan Watt (and Mark Watt) - apparently this is very similar to his "3D Computer Graphics", which doesn't seem to be available here.<<<<<

That's not bad, but the topics aren't covered in full depth. If you are advanced, then that wont be a problem.

V-man

PH
09-30-2002, 08:09 AM
Any book that has made drawing and manipulating objects on the screen easier.


Linear Algebra by Fraleigh & Beauregard

I actually don't have any books about realtime graphics. I have a few about computational geometry, the book by Watt, Texturing & Modelling and the Foley book. Those are all good books but they are probably not that helpful for realtime rendering.

I might pick up "Mathematics for 3D Game Programming and Computer Graphics" since this seems to have some good topics. Portals and T-junction removal are two topics that I had to solve myself ( there isn't a lot online on that ). From the sample pages from Amazon, it's looks like a good book.

PH
09-30-2002, 08:11 AM
Btw. does anyone have some comments on the Gems series ? I heard a lot about them...

PH
09-30-2002, 08:20 AM
Link to the book I mentioned,
http://www.aw.com/catalog/academic/product/1,4096,0201526751,00.html

SirKnight
09-30-2002, 10:00 AM
The Game Programming Gems books are awesome in my opinion. I have the first two and they contain some really good things. I looked at the 3rd GPG book at Barnes and Noble this past weekend and I _definitly_ want it. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif It seems to me that each GPG book just keeps getting better. The thing I dont like about all of them is the price. I know graphics/game programming books are expensive but damn, $70 is too much. But on amazon you can usually get them used or new for as much as $20 cheaper or more! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

-SirKnight

PH
09-30-2002, 10:20 AM
I just noticed that the price on the book I posted a link to is $116. That's a ridiculous price. I paid what would be equivalent to around $35-40 in 1995. I guess cloth is expensive http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif. Mine is the 3rd edition paperback.

pkaler
09-30-2002, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by SirKnight:
The Game Programming Gems books are awesome in my opinion. I have the first two and they contain some really good things. I looked at the 3rd GPG book at Barnes and Noble this past weekend and I _definitly_ want it. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif It seems to me that each GPG book just keeps getting better. The thing I dont like about all of them is the price. I know graphics/game programming books are expensive but damn, $70 is too much. But on amazon you can usually get them used or new for as much as $20 cheaper or more! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

-SirKnight


Originally posted by PH:
I just noticed that the price on the book I posted a link to is $116. That's a ridiculous price. I paid what would be equivalent to around $35-40 in 1995. I guess cloth is expensive http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif. Mine is the 3rd edition paperback.

Try http://halfpricecomputerbooks.com/ and http://www.addall.com/.

Why shop for bargains when someone else will do it for you.

josip
09-30-2002, 10:22 AM
A website I find useful is www.bookpool.com. (http://www.bookpool.com.) They don't have as large a selection as amazon, but their prices are usually much cheaper (up to 40% off). I looked up a couple of the books mentioned to see the prices and this is what I came up w/:

Advanced Animation and Rendering Techniques: Theory and Practice - $39.50 (28% off) http://www.bookpool.com/.x/obj3htkiw6/sm/0201544121

Texturing and Modeling: A Procedural Approach - $41.95 (30% off) http://www.bookpool.com/.x/obj3htkiw6/ss/1?qs=texturing

3D Game Engine Design : A Practical Approach to Real-Time Computer Graphics - $45.50 (30% off) http://www.bookpool.com/.x/obj3htaek4/sm/1558605932

3D Computer Graphics, Third Edition - $42.95 (28% off) http://www.bookpool.com/.x/obj3htaek4/sm/0201398559

The Official OpenGL Library Boxed Set - $68.25 (28% off) http://www.bookpool.com/.x/4g5t3e12u8/sm/020177576X

I've bought books from them dozens of times in the last five or so years and have never had any problems. I always check here first, then I go to amazon. Not all of the books are in-stock though, so they might take several weeks to be shipped out.

PH
09-30-2002, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by PK:
Why shop for bargains when someone else will do it for you.

Indeed, why ? I don't actually buy books from the US since I don't live there http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

ToolChest
09-30-2002, 10:47 AM
while we are on the topic of game development books… does anyone know who Andre Lamothe is? Half of the game development books I have were written or co-written by him. Just wondering if he was some game design icon or just some guy that writes books (the books are very good). http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

josip
09-30-2002, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by john_at_kbs_is:
while we are on the topic of game development books… does anyone know who Andre Lamothe is? Half of the game development books I have were written or co-written by him. Just wondering if he was some game design icon or just some guy that writes books (the books are very good). http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Yeah, I got started w/ several of his books. He's been writing books for a while now (early 90's?). Currently, he's trying to support indie developers w/ a sort of umbrella company that publishes low-budget games. It's sort of a way to help out up-n-comers. His website is www.xgames3d.com. (http://www.xgames3d.com.) He was also trying to organize a small-scale GDC that didn't pan out.

ToolChest
09-30-2002, 11:12 AM
that’s cool… maybe I’m a little paranoid, but it sounds like a scam, to friendly… http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif are they only online distribution, I’ve never seen any of those games before (but honestly I don’t go shopping much http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif)?

josip
09-30-2002, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by john_at_kbs_is:
that’s cool… maybe I’m a little paranoid, but it sounds like a scam, to friendly… http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif are they only online distribution, I’ve never seen any of those games before (but honestly I don’t go shopping much http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif)?

Never dealt w/ him personally, but the half-full part of me thinks he's just trying to help out. Probably not too much money to be had.

Not sure, but I believe he also bundles some of those games onto CD's. The kind you get at Walmart/BestBuy w/ 100's of other games. Definitely not something you'd see on the shelves next to The Sims or Jedi Knight http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

ToolChest
09-30-2002, 11:34 AM
ahhhh, gotcha... if its not a scam its a really good idea. thanks for the info...

John.

Cab
09-30-2002, 01:17 PM
Two of the books I like more at this moment are:
"Mathematics for 3D Game Programming & Computer Graphics" by Eric Lengyel
And a bit 'more advanced'
"Computer Animation - Algorithms and Techniques" by Rick Parent
---
Also, the "Game Programming Gems" series have some good topics for reference.
---
"Real-Time Rendering" by Tomas Möller and Eric Haines is also an excellent book and it will give you a good overview. It has a good web site: www.realtimerendering.com (http://www.realtimerendering.com) with update information about everything. This web has also a good list of books that can interest you.

Hope this helps.

pkaler
09-30-2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by PH:
Indeed, why ? I don't actually buy books from the US since I don't live there http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

You can search within Canada, the US, and a bunch of European countries.

BTW, anybody have any opinions on Real-Time Shading? http://www3.addall.com/New/compare.cgi?d...title=&state=AK (http://www3.addall.com/New/compare.cgi?dispCurr=CAD&id=87218&isbn=1568811802&location=11000&thetime=20020930144049&author=&title=&state=AK)

SirKnight
10-01-2002, 06:51 AM
I just went to that addall.com site and HOLY CRAP that site rocks! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif Both of the books I want to get ("Real-Time Rendering 2nd ed" & "GPG 3") are waaayyyy cheaper than I have seen on amazon/amazon marketplace or Barnes and Noble. I thought the amazon marketplace was going to be my cheapest source for books, untill now. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif Now comes the decision on which book to buy now and which one I should get later. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

-SirKnight

rob_als
10-02-2002, 03:14 AM
One book I really like and use is Computer Graphics using OpenGL. It really explains well the basic stuff and has some OpenGL examples...