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KRONOS
12-17-2002, 10:41 AM
When register combiners came out, I'm like: "Great, per pixel stuf". And I learned how to use them, but there's a but: it's NVidia only. The thing is I want my ARB_fragment_program!! And from what I understand, it could be implemented in GeForce3 hardware and up (except Geforce 4 MX), right?!. Like a mixture of NV_texture_shader and register cmobiners. Can I hope to see ARB_fragment_program in the gl extension list in geforce3 hardware?More of a question to the NVidia dudes. I don't have an ATI board, so I don't know if ATI supports it or not, but that would nice to see (or someone to confirm).

jra101
12-17-2002, 10:46 AM
ARB_fragment_program is for DX9 (ps2.x) level cards only

KallDrexx
12-17-2002, 11:41 AM
DX9 level cards?

Anyways nvidia does not have support yet for it in drivers but ati does (at least for their 9700). kinda a bummer tho i really hope it will come to my g3 (then again vertex_program did)

--KallDrexx

jra101
12-17-2002, 11:48 AM
Yes, thats because ARB_vertex_program is very similar (featurewise) to NV_vertex_program. ARB_fragment_program is significantly more advanced/powerfull than NV_register_combiners+NV_texture_shaders and definitely won't run on a GF3.

OneSadCookie
12-17-2002, 11:49 AM
The NVidia GeForce3/4Ti can't handle ARB_fragment_program, and neither can the ATI Radeon8500/9000, so unless you're willing to do it in software, it's time for an upgrade...

The ATI Radeon9700/9500 and the NVidia GeForceFX are the first cards that can support ARB_fragment_program in hardware.

KRONOS
12-17-2002, 12:28 PM
Well, damn.... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif I saw a post where someone said that ARB_fragment_program was less powerfull than DX9 ps, so I thought it could be used in Geforce3 class hardware (not all of it of course, a mixture, or limited to, like ARB_vertex_program).

KRONOS
12-17-2002, 12:30 PM
Ooopsss, wrong smile!!!! "Well, damn... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif"

Humus
12-17-2002, 06:36 PM
Well, there is a edit message feature on this board.

MichaelK
12-18-2002, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by OneSadCookie:
The NVidia GeForce3/4Ti can't handle ARB_fragment_program, and neither can the ATI Radeon8500/9000, so unless you're willing to do it in software, it's time for an upgrade...

Gee.. I thought that all ATI 9x00 series are full DX9 compatible, thus implement ps...

harsman
12-18-2002, 03:42 AM
The Radeon 9000 is a simpler Radeon 8500 and competes pricewise with the GeForce 4MX. I think there's a mobile version as well. Pretty good value for money considering it's an actual DX8 part. The Radeon 9700 Pro, 9700, 9500 Pro and 9500 are all DX9 compatible.

ScottManDeath
12-18-2002, 04:24 AM
Hi

well, ARB_fragment_proram won't be possible on GF3/4 but perhaps nVidia can do it like the ATI_text_fragment_shader extension.

This extension uses the ARB_vertex_program interface with an cut down fragment_program grammar. Its basicaly a text interface to the EXT_fragmentshader extension.

Perhaps they(ATI, nVidia) can make a ARB_fragment_program based extension thats able to accept PS1.0 - PS 1.4 shader. Perhaps there are copyright issues that would forbid it, but anyways, a text interface to NV_texture_shader* and NV_register_combiners2 would be nice.

Bye
ScottManDeath

mogumbo
12-19-2002, 02:39 PM
Does anyone know where I can find ARB_fragment_program sample code? Or maybe a tutorial?

pbrown
12-19-2002, 06:23 PM
mogumbo,

Humus posted a couple ARB_fragment_program demos (Mandelbrot and Phong) that should be linked off opengl.org.

EDIT: Humus posted to this thread -- I think his web page is linked off his profile.

[This message has been edited by pbrown (edited 12-19-2002).]

DopeFish
12-19-2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by ScottManDeath:

a text interface to NV_texture_shader* and NV_register_combiners2 would be nice.


nvparse http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Humus
12-19-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by mogumbo:
Does anyone know where I can find ARB_fragment_program sample code? Or maybe a tutorial?

As Pat said, there's a number of ARB_fragment_program samples on my site: http://esprit.campus.luth.se/~humus/
Five yet, more to come. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

pkaler
12-19-2002, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by DopeFish:
nvparse http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Has anyone gotten NVParse compiled for Linux?

[This message has been edited by PK (edited 12-20-2002).]

ScottManDeath
12-20-2002, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by DopeFish:
nvparse http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Hi

well, I know nvparse, did some work with it. Its nice but it would be much more nice if it would be an extension on top(well perhaps below :-)) of the ARB_vertex_program/ARB_fragment_program extensions as ATI did it with ATI_text_fragment_shader.

Bye
ScottManDeath

mogumbo
12-20-2002, 08:04 AM
Wow, I must have completely missed that post :P Thanks....

amendol
12-20-2002, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by PK:
Has anyone gotten NVParse compiled for Linux?

[This message has been edited by PK (edited 12-20-2002).]


Yes, It compiles on Linux. I just did a checkout of nvsdk, and managed to get nvparse to compile after a few fixes. This was under RH 8.0. There were also some errors with including jpeg libs. I needed to do some wierd undefining of the c++ to get the jpeg libs to compile (I not sure just how sane it is to do this). I still don't have the entire thing building and now that I'm going on vacation it may be a couple of weeks...

My posts about it (mostly to myself http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif are on the linux OpenGL list.

Jamie

pkaler
12-20-2002, 12:24 PM
Yeah, I read your posts on opengl-gamedev-l. Still couldn't figure out the errors. But seems like Cg1.0 was just released, so no need for nvparse since it supports register combiners and texture shaders.

jwatte
12-20-2002, 09:16 PM
Unextended ARB_fragment_program is less powerful than the DX9 pixel shaders in its computational expressiveness (no predication at all). However, as it supports queriable limits, it may be MORE powerful in certain respects, such as number of instructions available, depending on hardware implementation.

It is still substantially more powerful than the DirectX 8(.1) level hardware. There's a HUGE leap between 8 (which was really just a way to describe re-configurable fixed-function pipelines) and 9 (which is really a mostly full-blown assembly language).

DopeFish
12-20-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by PK:
But seems like Cg1.0 was just released, so no need for nvparse since it supports register combiners and texture shaders.

URL for that? CgShaders.org doesnt have news on that yet

edit: nevermind, found it on developer.nvidia.com

[This message has been edited by DopeFish (edited 12-20-2002).]