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C++
04-06-2003, 04:46 AM
Hello everybody!
I want to ask a very interesting question for you!
Has nVidia`s 3D-graphic processors functions for RAY-TRACING implemented in hardware or not (Since GeForce2MX)?
If yes, how can I use them through OpenGL?
Don`t smiling and joking above me!
All modern effects uses RAY-TRACING. And I think RAY-TRACING owe to be implemented in hardware!!! Has come it is time. It`s very important algorithm (ray-trace).
Thank you for attention!

Jan
04-06-2003, 06:05 AM
No, it hasnīt. At least it has no "ray-tracing-engine", what you are asking for. However if you implement a ray-tracer, you may be able to use some functions, current hardware provides, but i donīt know much about this.

As far as i know it is impossible to implement hardware ray-tracing. And "all the ray-tracing effects" are only used in films, where they are computed in software-mode. Real-time applications like games donīt use ray-tracing.

Sorry, pal, but you have to do it the old way.
Jan.

DopeFish
04-06-2003, 08:26 AM
Raytracing requires all the data be available at once, so there would be no parallelism between the cpu and gpu anymore.

The gpu has very finite memory, and would likely not be able to store all the data required for a decent looking scene to be raytraced.

For objects such as spheres, raytracing has an infinite level of detail (to a certain extent), and with very finite memory limits (we're talking 64 - 128meg on the latest gfx cards), youd run out of memory real fast yet again.

If you had any reflectivity in your scene, youd have to eliminate a lot of your geometry culling, as otherwise you could very likely get incorrect results.

That said, theres a fragment program for the nv30 that performs realtime raytracing, however the scene is VERY simple.

oliii
04-06-2003, 10:33 AM
see http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=00007722&forum=3dtheory&id=-1

C++
04-06-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by DopeFish:
Raytracing requires all the data be available at once, so there would be no parallelism between the cpu and gpu anymore.

The gpu has very finite memory, and would likely not be able to store all the data required for a decent looking scene to be raytraced.

For objects such as spheres, raytracing has an infinite level of detail (to a certain extent), and with very finite memory limits (we're talking 64 - 128meg on the latest gfx cards), youd run out of memory real fast yet again.

If you had any reflectivity in your scene, youd have to eliminate a lot of your geometry culling, as otherwise you could very likely get incorrect results.

That said, theres a fragment program for the nv30 that performs realtime raytracing, however the scene is VERY simple.

Hi, my friends!
No-no!!! I talking not about ray-trace rendering!
I had in view only single ray trace. I know all about ray-tracing and what it requires lot amount of memory for secondary and greater rays. For creating dynamic shadows in games required using of ray-trace. But it runs slowly on CPU. So, my question: has nVidia`s 3D-graphic processors functions for RAY-TRACING implemented in hardware? GPU can process single trace much faster than CPU.

DopeFish, you said:
That said, theres a fragment program for the nv30 that performs realtime raytracing, however the scene is VERY simple.

--- Where I can get this "fragment program for the nv30 that performs realtime raytracing"? Even if scene is very simple!

Thank you for attention!

V-man
04-06-2003, 12:24 PM
>>>No-no!!! I talking not about ray-trace rendering!
So, my question: has nVidia`s 3D-graphic processors functions for RAY-TRACING implemented in hardware? GPU can process single trace much faster than CPU.<<<

If you are not talking about rendering, then what are you talking about?

No nvidia doesn't have a raytracing hardware available to the public. I think that was pretty obvious since if they did, they would be writing "YES, we do have raytracing built into our 3D hardware" in in super jumbo sized letters all over the moon.

Dopefish is talking about a demo at
cgshader.org
All source code and everything should be there.

jra101
04-06-2003, 12:25 PM
There are a number of raytracing shaders you can find here: http://www.cgshaders.org/shaders/

You can find even more info by searching for "real time raytracing" on Google.

nystep
04-06-2003, 02:16 PM
you mean realtime raytracing like it was done on pentium 200 without 3d acceleration? ;-)
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5

C++
04-07-2003, 02:50 AM
I think, You`re all bad programmers (I`m sure!).
OK, I repeat one more time for especially bad:
Has any 3D-graphics processor hardware acceleration for one trace of ray as following:

GLbool glTraceRayEXT(GL_RAY_TRACE, &Triangle, &Ray, &IntersectionPoint);

(Not RAY-TRACE rendering!!! NOT!!! Only single trace;
NO REALTIME RENDERING!!! NO REALTIME!!! I had in view only improving speed of ray-tracing for example, for phisical dynamics by using internal trace functions of my 3D accelerated card if they exists!!! Understand? So, my question: exists they or not??? ???
I don`t know english language too well, but I think I formulated my question pretty well)

For example:
on pentium4 2000 MHz -> 10,000,000 ray-traces per second;
on GeForce4 -> 150,000,000 ray-traces per second;

Understand, what means my question?
I hope, after that all of you will have understand my purposes!
Thank you for attention!

nystep
04-07-2003, 03:09 AM
I think, you're someone who has some very frightening problems with reading. (I'm sure!)

The answer is NO, as it was already mentioned in previous posts.

The solution is simple, if you wish to have a function working like:

GLbool glTraceRayEXT(GL_RAY_TRACE, &Triangle, &Ray, &IntersectionPoint);

do it yourself on the CPU.

dorbie
04-07-2003, 04:01 AM
Your API suggestion has to be the worst I have ever seen and obviously impossible for anyone to accelerate in hardware. The posters have been quite correct to point out some of the things they have w.r.t. retained databases, and your posts in response have been spectacularly illadvised.

Technical details on implementations: http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/rtongfx/ http://www.cs.uiuc.edu/Dienst/UI/2.0/Describe/ncstrl.uiuc_cs/UIUCDCS-R-2002-2269

General Discussion of this vs conventional rendering: http://online.cs.nps.navy.mil/DistanceEd...ation/cdrom.pdf (http://online.cs.nps.navy.mil/DistanceEducation/online.siggraph.org/2002/Panels/01_WhenWillRayTracingReplaceRasterization/cdrom.pdf) http://online.cs.nps.navy.mil/DistanceEd...on/session.html (http://online.cs.nps.navy.mil/DistanceEducation/online.siggraph.org/2002/Panels/01_WhenWillRayTracingReplaceRasterization/session.html)

zeckensack
04-07-2003, 06:44 AM
*push crap button*

Zengar
04-07-2003, 07:31 AM
Ti russkij, ne tak li? Ja eto ponial uge pered tem posmotret tvoi profil. Vi nikogda ne umeli rasgovarivat...

Zengar
04-07-2003, 07:32 AM
Sorry for my russian post. I didn't want to offend you guys, I simply had to say C++ something in private.

C++
04-07-2003, 09:37 AM
Hi, friends!
Thank you all for your opinions and advices.
I already have my own software implementation of RAY-TRACING.
I ask this question just because of I not skilled programmer (3 years) and know nothing about opportunity of implementation ray-tracing algorithms in hardware!

OK, lets talk about productivity.
My algoritm works: 750,000 traces per second on Celeron A 366 MHz.
Why all around speak me: You can reach millions even on your machine Celeron A 366 MHz (V-man)? Is it possible?
I think not! Do you think so???

nystep
04-07-2003, 10:09 AM
Ok, it looks more clear now. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

750.000 traces per second on a 366Mhz processor? it's already quite fast in my opinion.. but it depends how complex your test scene is.

You could optimize your routine in assembler with 3dnow or sse for example to get higher trace routine on your machine.

Here is an article that covers the implementation of a raytracer in assembler with sse: http://www.digit-life.com/articles/rtraytracing/

There are also other possibilities, it is just a suggest.

regards,

Lev
04-07-2003, 01:44 PM
So if you're not a skilled programmer why asking dumb questions that google can answer in a very short time. It's just the same as in the "OpenGL suggestions" forums: people that are too lazy or don't understand things come and ask for sound/networking/chinese restaurant to be integrated into OpenGL. I can understand that sometimes you have some ideas and the first thing you think is "hey that's cool". But then _before_ posting you _should_ do an extensive search on google and groups.google. You know the problem is that some people (I can only speak for myself but I bet there some other people that have a similar opinion) are getting tired of seeing all the same questions every day. Thats why there is a beginner and advanced board (not only here almost anywhere) - people that have no problem with answering a "how to make a camera" questions again and again are free to answer these questions and people that don't like it are free not to see such questions popping up every hour.

There's no problem being a beginner, and I used to ask dumb questions on this board too, but learn to do a little research before asking. In 99.9% of cases you'll find the answer without asking - and it's even faster for you. And please stop using such a ******* topic title - my personal rule is that if the title contains more than 3 "!" the question/suggestion is dumb - and an exception still has to be found.

Although this posting may sound agressive it isn't meant to be, please don't take it personally. It's just an advice and following the rules I've presented here has even more positive effects, one of them is that you won't get no more replies like "*push crap button*" or like this one anymore.

-Lev

Zengar
04-07-2003, 01:44 PM
Howewer, the ray-tracing hardware exists. http://www.saarcor.de/

SirKnight
04-07-2003, 02:39 PM
Ah, so that's one of the pieces of hardware John Carmack talked about last quakecon. After he said there exists some specialized hardware that does ray-tracing I was like, 'oh that's kinda nifty, I need to check this out and see what they can do.' The screenshot on that page with the two trees and the billions (exagerated I know) of flowers looks pretty cool. Nice and detailed. The lighting on those images looks pretty neat too. I wouldn't mind having one of these cards to mess around with.

What would be cool is have a graphics card that has two chips on it where one chip is a GPU like what we have today in the R300+ or NV30+ and the other chip be a ray-tracers like the one on that page. And have it setup where you can either render an image with both chips at the same time or just one or the other. I know this is pretty far-fetched and all, and would cost thousands http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif but still a neat concept I think.

-SirKnight

jwatte
04-07-2003, 06:46 PM
I think the conference room with the table/chairs was more impressive.

Anyway, I'm all for EXT_chinese_restaurant; that'll save me lots of lunch time and allow me to write more OpenGL code faster.

rgpc
04-07-2003, 06:57 PM
glEnable(GL_NO_MSG);

SirKnight
04-07-2003, 07:20 PM
Chinese Resturant in OpenGL, now THAT'S a genius idea. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif While we're at it, why not throw in EXT_pizza_hut, EXT_beer_keg, and EXT_candy_store. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif I will never be away from OpenGL again once these get ratified. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

-SirKnight

dorbie
04-07-2003, 08:24 PM
jwatte and SirKnight, you are both pioneers and visionaries, although it should be a single API though.

EXT_food and EXT_beverage might do it.

Something like:

GLfloat food_params[50] = { GL_SWEET_AND SOUR, 1.0, GL_CHICKEN, 1.0, GL_RICE, 0.5, GL_MSG, 0.0, NULL);

glFoodOrderfvEXT(GL_STOMACH, GL_FOOD_CHINESE, food_params);

I don't think values should be clamped at 1.0 here but some more work needs to be done on standard quantities since we are talking about mapping to real world values.

The idea of binding the food straight to the stomach and cutting out the need to actually eat it is quite brilliant (If I do say so myself). Do we need other targets to save on digestion or to allow one to enjoy the meal? GL_MOUTH, GL_SMALL_INTESTINE, GL_LARGE_INTESTINE.

EXT_beverage would work in a similar way, should we support cocktails or wait for better hardware?

I was hoping the cooking could be done in hardware using fragment programmability, I think hardware can finally support the thermal requirements, (NVIDIA has the lead here obviously), that way we can avoid the need for ordering, payment, authentication and delivery options APIs.

We can learn from the seminal paper "Ray Tracing Jell-O Brand Gelatin", Paul Heckbert, SIGGRAPH '87, pp. 73-74.

ScottManDeath
04-08-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by dorbie:
jwatte and SirKnight, you are both pioneers and visionaries, although it should be a single API though.

EXT_food and EXT_beverage might do it.

Something like:

GLfloat food_params[50] = { GL_SWEET_AND SOUR, 1.0, GL_CHICKEN, 1.0, GL_RICE, 0.5, GL_MSG, 0.0, NULL);

glFoodOrderfvEXT(GL_STOMACH, GL_FOOD_CHINESE, food_params);

I don't think values should be clamped at 1.0 here but some more work needs to be done on standard quantities since we are talking about mapping to real world values.

The idea of binding the food straight to the stomach and cutting out the need to actually eat it is quite brilliant (If I do say so myself). Do we need other targets to save on digestion or to allow one to enjoy the meal? GL_MOUTH, GL_SMALL_INTESTINE, GL_LARGE_INTESTINE.

EXT_beverage would work in a similar way, should we support cocktails or wait for better hardware?

I was hoping the cooking could be done in hardware using fragment programmability, I think hardware can finally support the thermal requirements, (NVIDIA has the lead here obviously), that way we can avoid the need for ordering, payment, authentication and delivery options APIs.

We can learn from the seminal paper "Ray Tracing Jell-O Brand Gelatin", Paul Heckbert, SIGGRAPH '87, pp. 73-74.

Hi

*ROFL* *ROFL* http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif


Bye
ScottManDeath

bonzaj
04-08-2003, 01:44 AM
Hello

I just wanted to say that there is a raytracing hardware chip. Its
AR350. I don't know if it a joke but take a look at www.art-render.com. (http://www.art-render.com.)

Its performance is counted in millions of Triangle/Ray Intersections.
It does radiosity and all the goodies in hardware and it works with
MAYA. I repeat I don't know if it is a joke. Check it out yourself.

BTW. a message to C++:

You can use OpenGL to speedUp your raytracing a LOT (especially for
primitives like speres etc.). The trick is to render a scene to bitmap
(WGL_RENDER_TO_BITMAP) and make a DIBSection. The section will grant
you access to its assigned memory from which you can directly read. It
is muuuuch faster than read ReadPixels. It depends only on AGP speed.
The rendered scene will show you exactly where are the requested
triangles. So You trace only once per triangle in first pass. The
other intersections you can make with octrees. The results are as
follows:

Scene 10000 tris (phong, multiple light sources, textures (without
interpolation) 40 - 50 fps on AMD 1800+ and 4xAGP.

One pain is only with triangle edges. You can find some artifacts,
which You eliminate with octrees. These artifacts are only painful
when rendering with real phong.

I like raytracing ;P

C YA.

davepermen
04-08-2003, 04:06 AM
Scene 10000 tris (phong, multiple light sources, textures (without
interpolation) 40 - 50 fps on AMD 1800+ and 4xAGP.[/B]

demo available? what resolution? i'm interested to see that http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

knackered
04-08-2003, 04:24 AM
WGL_RENDER_TO_BITMAP is not accelerated, as far as I'm aware.

dorbie
04-08-2003, 04:48 AM
Now THAT'S funny!

V-man
04-08-2003, 05:15 AM
>>>Its performance is counted in millions of Triangle/Ray Intersections.
It does radiosity and all the goodies in hardware and it works with
MAYA. I repeat I don't know if it is a joke. Check it out yourself.<<<

Yes, I've seen this before. Why would it be a joke? It's using 8 chips and its not millions but 1.1 billion test/sec.
I think chip speed is 137Mhz.

And they say it was designed in 1997.

All they need to do is reduce it to 1 or 2 chips and mass market it, make a new extension for GL and there you go.

chinese restaurant http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif
how did that get into the conversation?

gaby
04-08-2003, 05:18 AM
C++, you are a silly boy : never say to everybody they are bad programmers... it was contributors that are long time professionnals in CG programming here !

Lets say that raytracing is a global scene processing, OGL is not. You'd better studie CG algorythm than starting crappy threads.

Yes, AR350 is a ray/triangle intersection calculator : it provide the result of a ray (position+orientation) and a triangle (3 points) in one clock. So, it compute ray/triangle intersecting very faster than a CPU ! This processor can run in paralel.

GPU ARE NOT build to do raytracing : the most important thing is to understand that for ray tracing they should have only the advantage to process paralel tests. No more : you must build a paralelized CPU that will integrate ray/triangle intersection and mesh casting algorythmes to enhance ray-tracing speed.

Opengl never done raytracing, and I think it is not planned for a long time (it doesn't integrate the scene concept), and it was actually no relevant advantage to do it with GPU.

Gaby

bonzaj
04-08-2003, 06:09 AM
Daveperman:

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif It's not so pretty at it seems. I mentioned it was only a first
pass (so without reflection) and resolution is 256x256 - I'll use it
as dynamic texture.
But when i'll finish this engine I'll give a sign for sure.

Bonzaj

P.S

If You want to see sth really exciting about realtime raytracing try www.openrt.de (http://www.openrt.de)

nystep
04-08-2003, 08:47 AM
So the hardware exists for realtime raytracing. I guess it will be some must to have feature for the next generations of GPU, i mean i 3 or 4 years perhaps. who knows...

wait and see :-)

Coconut
04-08-2003, 09:10 AM
Of course we are all bad programmers. What do you think how we manage to find times to read your posts.

C++
04-08-2003, 09:13 AM
Hey, Gaby!
Don`t offend on me!
I hadn`t in view You and all other frequent contributors, when I told BAD programmers!
I wanted receive answer: "No, it hasn`t!". And it is all!
And I received it at the beginning of this theme (from Jan2000)!
Thank you for attention!

Miguel_dup1
04-08-2003, 09:24 AM
dorbie, you missed an extension or two I just made available on my site. GL_GIMME_CORONA_WITH_LIME_OR_LEMMON_NOW

I get about 150 fps in one pass. It has some very realistic blurring effect, and if you multitexture it with an extension like
GL_GIMME_A_SHOT_OF_RUM_NOW or GL_GIMME_A MARGARITA_RIGHT_NOW, you get astonishing blurring effects, but your fps will drop to about 0.5

Here is a shot of my code.

if( GL_CORONA )
{
GL_GIMME_A_SHOT_OF_RUM_NOW
}
else
{
GL_GIMME_A MARGARITA_RIGHT_NOW
}

I will give any updates I have, but you can add these very useful extension to your glext.h

La Mancha

SirKnight
04-08-2003, 10:47 AM
Hey also we need to add drink mixing support in a simple function, say glBlendDrinkfvEXT(...) or something similar, kinda like the glBlendEquationXXX function in a way but more powerfull. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

Or, how about using HLSL to combine drinks and maybe food. Just think of the recipies you can create in a HLSL with no limit on shader length. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

-SirKnight

[This message has been edited by SirKnight (edited 04-08-2003).]

SirKnight
04-08-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by C++:
Hey, Gaby!
I wanted receive answer: "No, it hasn`t!". And it is all!
And I received it at the beginning of this theme (from Jan2000)!


Obviously not. If all you wanted was a "no" answer which was given in the first reply to your post by Jan2000 like you say, then why did you keep comming back asking the same question like no one understood what you meant?


-SirKnight


[This message has been edited by SirKnight (edited 04-08-2003).]

dorbie
04-08-2003, 11:23 AM
The explanation is simple SirKnight, in the process of inflicting this thread on us he's learned more about the subject. With this new found knowledge he is finally able to go back and understand the first response posted. Finally he has sufficient clue to realize that those early posts he flamed people for actually were informative and he's been acting like an idiot all along. Unfortunately he has missed the other part of the lesson and instead of eating crow pie, has decided to pie everyone in the face again by pretending he got it and asking us why we bother responding to his followup questions and insults when the first post was the answer he needed. Perhaps we're supposed to miss the obvious inconsistency and think he's a genius instead of <snip>.

[This message has been edited by dorbie (edited 04-08-2003).]

Miguel_dup1
04-08-2003, 11:44 AM
DONE!!! I am still experiencing some blurs from the tests...

glBlendDrink4f( GL_RUM, 30.0, GL_VODKA, 10.0, GL_WATER, 0.0000001f, GL_ICE, 0.5f );

I'll tell you, the GL_WATER is hurt by the evil floating point, but it is works pretty decent.

The bad thing is that this extensions are expensive, and very processing intensive. Hopefully we will have them on hardware soon. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif


Originally posted by SirKnight:
Hey also we need to add drink mixing support in a simple function, say glBlendDrinkfvEXT(...) or something similar, kinda like the glBlendEquationXXX function in a way but more powerfull. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

Or, how about using HLSL to combine drinks and maybe food. Just think of the recipies you can create in a HLSL with no limit on shader length. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

-SirKnight

[This message has been edited by SirKnight (edited 04-08-2003).]

By the way, I think the whole ray tracing with a GPU is not going anywhere... So, why dont ya quite it. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

La Mancha

C++
04-09-2003, 06:49 AM
Hey you all who joking above my question!

#include <windows.h>
#include <gl\crap.h>

class Contributor : public TStupidProgrammer
{
public:
bool OffendedC++;
};
Contributor MyTopic[ContributorsCount];
HCRAPC cc;

int WINAPI WinMain(HINSTANCE, HINSTANCE, LPSTR, int)
{
cc = wglCreateCrapContext();
for(int i = 0; i < ContributorsCount; i++)
{
if(MyTopic[i].OffendedC++)
{
glEnable(GL_KICKING_ASS);
glKickAssHint(GL_ABSOLUTE_HURT, GL_OH_YEAH);
glBegin(GL_REVENGE);
glReplaceHisBrainsWithCrapEXTcv(&MyTopic[i]);
glTearOffHisLimbEXTcv(&MyTopic[i]);
glKillHisPussyCatEXTcv(&MyTopic[i]);
glEnd();
}
}
return 0;
}

And now try to compile it!
May be your 3D-card supports these functions...

Zengar
04-09-2003, 07:09 AM
I don't know, should I laught or cry?

Nowadays is OpenGL advanced forum a total OFF-TOPIC...

C++
04-09-2003, 07:34 AM
Zengar, I`m not offended on you!!!

Eric
04-10-2003, 03:18 AM
I should come here more often...




bool OffendedC++;


C++, are you sure you know C++?

C++
04-10-2003, 05:13 AM
Originally posted by Eric:
C++, are you sure you know C++?[/B]

Hey, Eric!
Believe me, I know C++ better than you!
You think I don`t know that declaring member variable with ++ operator is error?

E++r++i++c++

raverbach
04-10-2003, 06:42 AM
Believe me, I know C++ better than you!


I donīt want to say that uīre not the greatest programmer here ..you probably are...

...it just that C++ , you were able to create confusion with almost everybody in this forum ..
and you post things that you *i believe* canīt proof , about other people ...

I canīt say its a russian problem ..you see at my college had this russian fella that have the same "humble" attitude as you ...but zengar seems to be a very nice guy ..

code more , post less ...
..at least post less when all you have to say is about other people programming skills

and btw .... if you like so much raytracers check out OpenRT , this is clearly done by programmers less capable than you ..but they get the job done




[This message has been edited by raverbach (edited 04-10-2003).]

SirKnight
04-10-2003, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by C++:
Hey, Eric!
Believe me, I know C++ better than you!
You think I don`t know that declaring member variable with ++ operator is error?

E++r++i++c++


Dude will you just STFU already? For one you have no way of knowing if you know C++ better than him. Also, from your "class" you wrote it's obvious that you DON'T know C++ all that well. I mean if you "knew" that using a ++ in a variable was wrong then why the hell did you put it in there in the first place. Just give it a break already you n00b and go away. All you are doing is pissing people off. You really should learn better people skills.

BTW, how many years of C++ experience do you have?


Ok I'm better now. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

-SirKnight

DopeFish
04-10-2003, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by C++:
Hey you all who joking above my question!

#include <windows.h>
#include <gl\crap.h>

class Contributor : public TStupidProgrammer
{
public:
bool OffendedC++;
};
Contributor MyTopic[ContributorsCount];
HCRAPC cc;

int WINAPI WinMain(HINSTANCE, HINSTANCE, LPSTR, int)
{
cc = wglCreateCrapContext();
for(int i = 0; i < ContributorsCount; i++)
{
if(MyTopic[i].OffendedC++)
{
glEnable(GL_KICKING_ASS);
glKickAssHint(GL_ABSOLUTE_HURT, GL_OH_YEAH);
glBegin(GL_REVENGE);
glReplaceHisBrainsWithCrapEXTcv(&MyTopic[i]);
glTearOffHisLimbEXTcv(&MyTopic[i]);
glKillHisPussyCatEXTcv(&MyTopic[i]);
glEnd();
}
}
return 0;
}

And now try to compile it!
May be your 3D-card supports these functions...

You didnt initialize any of your extension function pointers, nor did you check that the extensions are even supported by querying the extension string.

You havent even defined your function pointers, let alone trying to use OpenGL for things other than graphics.

For someone who claims to know C++ better than others here, youve sure made a lot of problems that the others dont make :P

pkaler
04-10-2003, 08:33 AM
Hey C++, a little tip. Please read this. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Thank you.

Die thread Die.

Coconut
04-10-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by PK:
Hey C++, a little tip. Please read this. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Thank you.

Die thread Die.

You can save your efforts, PK. Genius like C++ don't need FAQs. He already knew the answers to every questions. The only thing he was not 100% sure was whether Nvidia cards support ray tracing, considering only a small percentage of world population know the answer anyway. Since he has become a perfect being, there is no point to continue this thread.

Julien Cayzac
04-10-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by C++:
Hey, Eric!
Believe me, I know C++ better than you!
You think I don`t know that declaring member variable with ++ operator is error?

E++r++i++c++

Jesus, why don't you just leave us and go have a milk with your classmates?

Julien.

zeckensack
04-10-2003, 09:45 AM
*slap crap button with a 200 pound trout*

Zengar
04-10-2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by raverbach:
...but zengar seems to be a very nice guy ..

I don't want anybody to mismunderstand me, and I don't really have something against russian people, but I'm not a russian! Sorry, I know this post makes absolutely no sence but my sence of patriotism is(alas!) a bit overdeveloped. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Thank's anyway for the compliment.

raverbach
04-10-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Zengar:
not a russian!



Sorry Zengar , i thought that due to your private post in russian http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

C++
04-10-2003, 11:28 AM
Hey, pals!
All what writing in this topic is bosh!
This topic is MY GREAT JOKE!
Or it is not amusing?
I`m not dude! In real, I modest!
Just have great desire on this week!
I know that I know C++ much less than everybody in the opengl.org!
I already knew that the GPU doesn`t support ray-tracing!
I knew that my question will cause such reaction!!!
Don`t offend on me and relax!

This is only for russians (we best!!! Really best! You just know us very bad. You think, we RED or BEARs? ... Joke):
P.S.
Eto kakie-to strannie programmisti! Ili oni prosto prikalivayutsya?! Nadeyus, oni gorazdo luche chem ya ponyal!

Aha, YOU want know what written there?!
Ha-ha-ha!
It`s great task for your brain!
BYE! - BYE!

glGoodBye("!!!");
You all think you best programmers?!
For me: best programmer is John Carmack.
In comparation with him you all his crap weekly freshness (Don`t offend, but in some sense it`s truth) !!!
That`s it !!! !!! !!!


____####### # # ####### ##### # # ###
_______# # # # # # ## # # #
_______# ####### ####### ##### # # # # #
_______# # # # # # # # # #
_______# # # ####### ##### # ## ###

SirKnight
04-10-2003, 02:43 PM
Well if all of what you say here is true then you really need to get out more. Wasting our time with this kind of thing is NOT cool. When someone asks a question here, we expect they really don't know the answer and needs help. I am more than happy to help someone but to get suckered in something like this ... it's just not what we want to do. Again, this is assuming what you say is true. I think you're just trying to cover yourself; acting like you knew all of this already so you don't appear inferior and newbieish to the rest of us.

Also, you must have not been in the programming world very long because it should be obvious that John Carmack is NOT the best programmer there is. Sure he is very very good and I respect him a lot. Everything he says I listen to because his thoughts and views about graphics are very interesting and knowledgeable. But to say that anyone here is his crap is just plain stupid. I know people that come to this board that either know as much or more than Carmack. Now I know I don't because I don't quite have the experience he does, I have only been in 3D graphics for around 3 or so years.

I know I'm probably just feeding the trolls but o well. I'm just about out of troll food anyway. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif Unless I can mix up some more in OpenGL. glGenFood( GL_TROLL_FOOD, &tfood ); http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

EDIT: Dumb grammer mistakes. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

-SirKnight


[This message has been edited by SirKnight (edited 04-10-2003).]

raverbach
04-11-2003, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by C++:
You all think you best programmers?!

First ...learn english ..
What were trying to say was :

You all think youīre the best programmers?!

Is that ??

No. I donīt think that , and I think that a fair amount of the people around here share this thought.
Afterall , if we were the greatest programmmers in the world , we should have no doubts , making this forum useless.

I think weīre good programmers not due to experience or inteligence (which btw ..some people in here have and they would be praising themselves..but theyīre not) , instead most people in here are good programmers due to their will of learning and overcome their difficulties ...and that makes the difference.



For me: best programmer is John Carmack.


For sure Carmack is a hell of a programmer , but there are some in here that share the same the level ...know GLUT ?? ...thereīs this guy in here Mark Kilgard http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif he code it
and lot of people use ..thereīs some papers of his , that really helped and driven a lot of people in GL community

and for sure heīs also a hell of a programmer ..

Cheers Mark http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif !

Cass Everit also post here , and he wrote some nice papers which btw you should read
,and also have a *i for sure believe* tremendous knowlodge of GL.


Cheers Cass http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif !

These 2 helped to develop the GL community so much or even more than Carmack does

Not mentioning all the Silicon Graphics fellas ....

This is just naming a few , thereīs a large number of people in here with astonishing work , demos and all

Thatīs it
Iīm done





[This message has been edited by raverbach (edited 04-11-2003).]

C++
04-11-2003, 05:51 AM
Hello, SirKnight!
I understand all things you told me.
Excuse me if I strongly offended you.
I can`t understand only several things with my blunt brains:
1) Why everybody continuing to post replyes to my topic?
I think, clever programmer (or just clever human) can immediately detect that this topic is not interesting and save his time and efforts. Besides, each reply sends to my mail notification and it is very anger me.
2) My first message in this topic was very serious. And I received answer. For what I very grateful to Jan2000 and others up to first 10 messages. I already spoke this fact. And all others have very serious problems with reading. They should read messages with attention (Especially when text written by person, which know English far no with perfection).
3) I have understood that after aproximately first 10 messages contributors wanted to offend me. And they achieved it and received my malicious replyes.
4) They scoff by me that I know C++ much less than they. For their information, I have book "Teach Yourself C++" by Herbert Schildt in russian translation, and this is very good book.
|
When someone asks a question here, we expect they really don't know the answer and needs help. I am more than happy to help someone but to get suckered in something like this ... it's just not what we want to do. =>
5) Who forces their come and come in my topic several times? My topic visits small amount of "funny" contributors. I think they are not so stupid and can remember that my topic is useless. I am not guilty that they want to click left button of mouse when cursor over my topic heading.
|
BTW, how many years of C++ experience do you have?
Not so long. Only one year but know all capabilities of C++ programming language. I love C++.

Tom Nuydens
04-11-2003, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by C++:
1) Why everybody continuing to post replyes to my topic?

It boggles the mind, doesn't it?

-- Tom

dorbie
04-11-2003, 06:13 AM
Dude get over yourself, quit pretending it was all troll. It's obvious it wasn't.
Sheesh.

I'm not 'offended on you' balvan.

Eto mnye do huya.

Go spam alt.freaks.ru

Pacheemu ti takoy galuboy? Thomarai gand mai lund hai?

Ti Durok, otlez' gnida.

Coconut
04-11-2003, 06:24 AM
Excuse me, there is a check box you had to check in order to get mail notifications.
Of course, it was the idea of a bad programmer who put the check box right there. Not really your fault.
Also, can you tell us who offended you first before you called people "bad programmer"?
It wasn't "bad" I found it offensive, but rather you call people "programmer" without any proof.

[This message has been edited by Coconut (edited 04-11-2003).]

SirKnight
04-11-2003, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by dorbie:
Dude get over yourself, quit pretending it was all troll. It's obvious it wasn't.
Sheesh.


Dorbie, who are you refering to?

-SirKnight

C++
04-11-2003, 10:02 AM
Hello, everybody!
Coconut, I see you offended on me!
On your place I would not pay attention on my "bad programmers"!
Only you know your qualification. Your problem is that you are gentle so much! Leave your tenderness! Look at me: I`m not pay even micro attention on what writing for me in my topic!
Who offended me first? gaby and Dorbie!

BTW, Dorbie had to try write some offensive words in russian! It was funny! A-ha-ha-ha-ha!
The word "balvan", which means your intellectual poverty, Dorbie, you written with one error! Your homework: try to find your mistake!
Yes, I don`t know American(/English) grammar, but writing words mainly without errors!

> Pacheemu ti takoy galuboy?
writing Dorbie, which means "Why you so blue?".
I`m not blue Dorbie! To prove it I ready to **** your mother!

I know - you american, Dorbie! I haven`t anything against all americans and America, but I hate humans like you! You sitting with your fat ass by the computer and reading this text. If for any reasons you does not arrange my thoughts - GO OUT OF MY OWN TOPIC!!! UNDERSTAND ME, BITCH?
Have you ever heard about "Freedom of word"? You live in Amrerica and you don`t know what is it? You should understand following: this topic is my private intellectual property. And it isn`t spam this forum! In general, I haven`t words to describe how much I hate you!

You can write what will take in your head!
But for the time of existence of this topic I come to following conclusions:
- I have business with not absolute adults humans (gaby and Dorbie).
- Some of you not better than those russians with which I have business each day, and frequently even worse!
- I was about you all of the best opinion!

With best regards, C++!
For anyone who still want anger me: SHUT UP, ****ed monkeys (gaby and Dorbie)! Who gave you special rights to offending me in public!? Ah?
Because of you others morally have suffered from me!

P.S.
Do you know about existence of www.opengl.org.ru? (http://www.opengl.org.ru?) www.opengl.org.ru (http://www.opengl.org.ru) -> site for best programmers!

dorbie
04-11-2003, 10:45 AM
C++, I'm not American. Yea, you have a real command of English. You should teach it such is your expertise. I don't think I've found a single error in anything you've written professor. But you shouldn't boast about your great error free English posts. It might give readers an inferiority complex knowing that there are intellectual giants like you out there.

[This message has been edited by dorbie (edited 04-11-2003).]

knackered
04-11-2003, 10:50 AM
Now I won't have that - you can't have a pop at Dorbie, he didn't exactly ask to be put into a middle-management position, it was just a natural progression that a programmer has to go through to start to make lots of lovely money.
I'm sure he'd love to go back to the good old days when he actually did some coding.
But in the meantime, it's enough that he contributes to this forum - I'm sure everyone appreciates hearing how things used to be done.
BTW, I believe he's Scottish, not American, although I'm sure there's a trans-atlantic droll to his voice by now. It certainly helps me to visualise him in this way.

C++, your English is ****, but one of your fellow citizens wrote Tetris, so you're alright by me. Carry on with your stream of random words by all means...

Coconut
04-11-2003, 11:10 AM
BTW dorbie, where the heck are you these days? I used to subscribe Performer mailing list several years ago.

dorbie
04-11-2003, 11:12 AM
knackered, WTF are you talking about? I'm a software engineer, I write code and I have for years. As for the way stuff used to be done, the last thing I made a significant engineering contribution to (you know, design, code etc), can be downloaded here: http://www.earthviewer.com/ yep, all that old fashioned stuff, I'm clearly out of touch and just can't keep up with young whipper snappers like you. But wait, why are NVIDIA, CNN, the U.N. and numerous three letter agencies now using my (and others) software? I guess they just don't have the benefit of your opinion to set them straight. The worst managers are those who leap to conclusions based on assumptions and no real information, from your last post I'd conclude you're ripe for promotion. Now I know someone like you might (for example) read a debate about texture paging between me and some hot shot driver developer at an IHV and you go away thinking I'm just old fashioned somehow and I don't know what I'm talking about (afterall the smart dude at the IHV MUST know what he's talking about), or some flamewar with a spotty teenager abroad where they don't even bother to follow the links provided to information they request, but you just don't have the facts to form the appropriate opinion.

I haven't lost my accent. Since you're having a go, it's been a while since I read anything technical from you. Your posts here are invariably some bitter attack on someone you don't know (like the one you just posted) and you never actually make a contribution besides putting people down, have you actually made any coherent technical posts here lately? Any positive contribution at all?


[This message has been edited by dorbie (edited 04-11-2003).]

dorbie
04-11-2003, 11:16 AM
Coconut, I left SGI maybe 2 years ago, I was at Keyhole (working on Earthviewer stuff). I'm actually leaving for a new gig with another company in Dallas now. I won't drag their good name through this thread ;-)

Miguel_dup1
04-11-2003, 11:48 AM
WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL ALIVE? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/confused.gif
THREAD->KILL() does not work anymore?

knackered
04-11-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by dorbie:
I haven't lost my accent.
Try harder then. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif


Originally posted by dorbie:
it's been a while since I read anything technical from you. Your posts here are invariably some bitter attack on someone you don't know (like the one you just posted) and you never actually make a contribution besides putting people down, have you actually made any coherent technical posts here lately? Any positive contribution at all?

You see, that pretty much sums you up dorbie. You're here (on this forum) not primarily to help people, you're here to trumpet your own intellect - every reply I've seen you post to someones relatively simple opengl question uses jargon that nobody in their right mind would use with such people unless it were to promote themselves as some kind of authority on a subject, regardless of whether it makes a point clearer or not. "Occulters", please god.
I may not have contributed all that much to the furthering of realtime 3d (but then again, neither have you), but I like to think I've actually helped the odd person with some mundane stuff. You see, I'm just a jobbing coder, trying to meet deadlines, and with each project trying to add more advanced features, bit by bit, little by little - even though the customers couldn't give a sh*t about per-pixel lighting.
BTW, aside from all that, EarthViewer was fantastic - or at least the short lived evaluation version was pretty interesting. Not much of the homeland in there though, eh?

dorbie
04-11-2003, 01:02 PM
Let's just say we disagree on that one, but it depends on the literature you read. Your personal animosity leads you to interpret my motives as you do.

First you're better than me because I'm an out of touch, overpaid "middle-manager", I'm not, so now I'm just a show off and you're a 'salt of the Earth' jobbing coder blah blah blah.... and I use fancy words and talk funny. You remind me of everything that's screwed up with Britain. Guys like you all over the place with huge chips on their shoulders.

You say you like to help people, but comments like "shall I get your coat" demonstrate clearly just what motivates you knackered. You *assumed* that guy was some freeloader who promised something. If it were one or two threads I'd understand, everyone's gotta blow off steam, but MOST of your comments are like that knackered, not just some. It's obvious you feel underrewarded for your efforts and resent the crap out of posters here for it. Very British blue collar knack, let it go, you'll be happier. Pot, kettle, "black".

I do post here for the rewards of helping someone. When someone says thanks, I'm like mutley getting a medal in catch the pidgeon (well I exaggerate), and I also enjoy the to and fro of technical discussion. It's stimulating and educational. This is about the only forum I hang out in, and I think it's a convenient way of staying in touch with graphics developments. I can't lurk, it just ain't in me.

P.S. W.R.T. Earthviewer data is expensive and can be quite hard to get, what's there is begged, borrowed & not stolen etc. a lot of the issues with building a world database become copyright & licesing related when your data production tools are in place. The company is also U.S. based so that's the focus of efforts. Startups don't have the cash to go international instantly.

[This message has been edited by dorbie (edited 04-11-2003).]

knackered
04-11-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by dorbie:
Pot, kettle, "black".
You felt it neccessary to pick on my skin colour, well that's a bit underhand in my opinion.


and I use fancy words and talk funny
You utter snob, dorbie. That is the most patronising piece of crap you've ever uttered in my presence.
No wonder you emmigrated. I doubt you had much trouble getting a lift to the airport.

I don't "resent the crap" out of most people here - it's pretty much only you, dorbie - and that boils down to things like the above quote.
If I've insulted other people here at one time or another, it's been plainly obvious, not disguised in snide asides. Such is the British way.

kansler
04-11-2003, 01:52 PM
People, please behave!

Personal vendettas don't belong on this forum. And for the last couple of months the number of OT & useless posts are increasing. If this goes on, what's the point of this forum?

There are so much more beautiful things we can realize by programming. Maybe even make the world a little bit better. So don't waste time with these posts.

And C++, get a life and stay on www.opengl.org.ru (http://www.opengl.org.ru)

Code, be happy
Code good, make everybody happy

SirKnight
04-11-2003, 02:51 PM
Boy oh boy, this thread sure did go all over the place didnt it? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif I sure didn't see this thread going to a dorbie vs. knackered war though. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

In all fairness I can see how both of you in some ways were right about each other. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif But that's what makes us unique isn't it? Ok so we all have our own problems and quirks, so what? Ok enough of that.

BTW, dorbie you never answered my question. Since I was the only one who mentioned the word 'troll' I thought that maybe somehow you thought that I thought this whole thread was all troll. If that's the case I really have no idea why you would think this. I never said it was nor did I imply it. I'm a bit confused there. But if you did not direct that at me then I'm sorry for assuming you did and ignore all of what I just said up there. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

-SirKnight

[This message has been edited by SirKnight (edited 04-11-2003).]

raverbach
04-11-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by C++:
I ready to **** your mother!


And then the respect is dead ....
...sad...

That this thread fade and never see the light again

Roderick Averbach

dorbie
04-11-2003, 09:48 PM
I had no idea you were black knackered, you post your attacks as an anonymous coward so it's impossible to tell. The expression is an abbreviation of "the pot calling the kettle black", it is used when someone accuses another of exactly the thing they are guilty of.

I'm not a snob, but when you attack be out of nowhere I will defend myself, your ignorant 'out of date middle-management' accusation was just such an attack, and a nasty one even for you. When you were shown to be completely wrong about me you just moved onto the next biased attack with no acknowledgement of your error, driven soley by your hatred. Attack is the best form of defence in your case, but the facts matter. Your followup just illustrates your bias, calling someone a snob is a British classic and a real indicator of your problem. You attack me for my vocabulary after your first attack is demonstrated to be wrong, I defend pointing out what you've done and *I'M* the snob?

I guess I've come a long way for a coal miner's son, I finally made "snob".

You've constructed some fantasy image of my that isn't real knackered, you're reading my posts colored by this image.

You really should do something about that chip on your shoulder, your posting record is CRAMMED with unprovoked attacks on posters with very few redeeming posts. It's a simple fact that is easy to confirm, and that's got nothing to do with me.

Yes I have my flaws, I'm saving myself for sainthood in another reincarnation, but I suggest you review what has happened in this exchange and see if I'm really being unreasonable.

Sigh!

dorbie
04-11-2003, 09:57 PM
SirKnight, that particular comment was addressed to C++. My troll food got eaten whole but unfortuantely knackered was emboldened to attack me when he saw a kindred spirit professing their utter hatred of me. Unintended consequences.... that'll teach me.

[This message has been edited by dorbie (edited 04-11-2003).]

C++
04-12-2003, 02:53 AM
raverbach, whether you had a respect to me in the past? If yes, why I hadn`t felt it?

knackered, I know that my English is ****! I haven`t any practice in your language. My language (russian) differs with English too much. It is: other order of words, other designs of the offer, much greater amount of words, other literals, and many-many other differences! I studing English without diligence because I love russian language too much and do not want to know English. Why? Because in Russia exists enough amount of russian-translated books (nearly all of american books) about programming and because I translating from English to Russian in order better than in contrary direction. For me enough my level of knowing English.

BTW, what your opinion about Dorbie?

kansler, go to www.opengl.org.ru (http://www.opengl.org.ru) yourself! I don`t want to go there because there are not idiots such as Dorbie and it`s too boringly for me. I want to get some intertainment in opengl.org and fun stuff.

BTW, what your opinion about Dorbie?

mancha, this thread will be live forever!

Dorbie, I see you a very good expert in programming. But why you shame your bright name as expert? Why your behaviour looks like children's entertainments? Leave your childhood, Dorbie. Look at mirror - you are grown-up boy. You have a beard and, may be, moustache, you carry glasses. You are not child. F_U_C_K you!!! For me you are animal (gorilla).

Good-bye friends (except of Dorbie)! I must go to write my program!
You all first class programmers, I`m sure!

knackered
04-12-2003, 09:23 AM
Aye, you're absolutely right dorbie.
I was winding you up, because I'm childish. I get a kick out of it. Sorry for any offense caused. BTW, don't tar english people with the same brush as you tar me - most english people are sound.

C++
04-12-2003, 11:23 AM
In reality, I am interested in every message in my topic. Let`s talk about anything else instead of observing Dorbie vs kanckered battle.
Each of you are incredibly experienced programmers.
So, my question:
Which sources of information you had used to become super programmers?

BTW, knackered, What means your:
"One of your fellow citizens wrote Tetris, so you're alright by me."?

For information: in translation to russian language your text is also seems as random sets of words.

SirKnight
04-12-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by dorbie:
SirKnight, that particular comment was addressed to C++. My troll food got eaten whole but unfortuantely knackered was emboldened to attack me when he saw a kindred spirit professing their utter hatred of me. Unintended consequences.... that'll teach me.

[This message has been edited by dorbie (edited 04-11-2003).]

Oh ok, I thought so but I just wanted to be sure. Sorry again for starting to assume I thought you were talking to me. heh. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

-SirKnight

SirKnight
04-12-2003, 11:57 AM
So, my question:
Which sources of information you had used to become super programmers?


Well lets see...books (can't ever have too many http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif), school classes, internet, and just doing lots and lots of programming. Being in competitions is a good way to really teach you a lot. Like for example, when I was in High School, I was in this competition thing we call UIL here (I don't remember what that stands for) and I was in the Computer Science part. Well doing all the practice tests and programs preparing for this pushed me and challenged me in ways I never would have done on my own. Now of course you don't have to do something like that, but if it's possible it would be a good option to try. But like I said before, just program and program and program. Read everything you can and don't make the mistake most of us do and say "oh this stuff here is stupid and not important, I think I'll just skip over this and not worry myself any." Well doing that can/will hurt you later on. Try to learn everything you can, even if you think it's dumb or useless.

-SirKnight

Mezz
04-12-2003, 12:39 PM
I read this thread right back at the beginning and then forgot about it, when I saw it was up to three pages I thought I'd take a look at it because perhaps there was some interesting ray tracing talk to look at.

I was clearly very wrong.

knackered
04-12-2003, 01:03 PM
Thank you for sharing that with us, Mezz.

SirKnight
04-12-2003, 03:00 PM
Ya it is rather unfortunate isn't it Mezz.

knackered, give it a break man. Dorbie is right, all your posts ever do is start conflicts, when is the last time you actually participated in an actual graphics converstion that was worthwhile and not flames? I sure can't think of any.

-SirKnight

knackered
04-12-2003, 03:14 PM
When was the last time you said anything that summed up to anything but "yeah, cool", SirKnight?
In all truth, I visit this forum to see if I can help someone who may have an opengl problem...to pass the brief moments between thoughts really - I don't actually learn all that much from the forum, and don't see anyone talking about anything earth shattering, just discussing the various merits of different vertex object schemes, or complaining about r2t being slow in the nvidia opengl drivers, or isn't 8bits too little to get a decent specular exponent?...or, doesn't d3d suck....brrrr...That stuff just ends up being c*ck sucking and links to white papers...
There's nothing new under the sun.

HS
04-12-2003, 04:02 PM
*grabs pop-corn, cracks open a beer*

"Go on!"

Miguel_dup1
04-12-2003, 04:23 PM
I have gone through several bottles of rum and a few cases of beer already trying to follow up on this tribes 2 like war!!!! :P
I even almost got shot HS!!!


Originally posted by HS:
*grabs pop-corn, cracks open a beer*

"Go on!"

Mezz
04-13-2003, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by knackered:
Thank you for sharing that with us, Mezz.

It was my pleasure.

Zengar
04-13-2003, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by C++:
BTW, knackered, What means your:
"One of your fellow citizens wrote Tetris, so you're alright by me."?

Tetris was written by a russian, if I am not mistaken, in Sant-Peterburg.


Originally posted by C++:
For information: in translation to russian language your text is also seems as random sets of words.

No, it doesn't. You don't translate texts "word into word". Texts are translated according to grammatic and idiomatic rules.

V-man
04-13-2003, 08:14 AM
Tetris is a pretty cool game. TetrisXXX simply blows the doors off!

Who wrote TetrisXXX?
And why dont we see more games like that?

Hull
04-13-2003, 08:28 AM
Atleast, I am smart enough not to post any replies here.....

Ups. Ah, very well...

About keyhole: Looks nice. Should be cool to use a similar method in my next game.
About raytracing: Are you supposed to keep entire scene in gpu, just to be able to check a ray for intersecting with all primitives in the pipeline?

dorbie
04-13-2003, 09:18 AM
Knackered,

I'm glad to hear you were just winding me up, it's easily done :-). No offence taken, serves me right for rising to the bait.

I used the word British, not English, we Scotts are British too you know. I lived in England for several years before I came to America. I like the place and the people and I expect under other circumstances you & I would probably get along.

Thanks for the truce.

dorbie
04-13-2003, 09:40 AM
C++, calm down dude, I don't even speak Russian never mind read or write it. It was just trolling a troll with random insults I can't even read.

I didn't expect you to have an online aneurism over it, it was funny all the same though. Looks like I should have chosen from the mild kindergarten slurs instead of the drunken submariner tirade list :-)

Look at my very first post in this thread. Did you follow the links? It's one of the few real responses to your question with appropriate helpful information. I don't hate you, I started out trying to help, but your incessant spam and B.S. insulting people who were trying to inform you made me want to give you a taste of your own medicine in an already degenerate thread, and boy did you go for it.

Don't bust a vessel over it, and don't waste time hating over an online trollfest. Forget about it, if you're still offended I take it back. Now move on.

If you want to be a good programmer, my advice would be, do what you love. If you enjoy what you do then you'll absorb, learn and implement at a level that exceeds your peers, and get paid for having fun. It's a sweet deal and life will be good.

C++
04-13-2003, 12:56 PM
Forget all my bad words to you, Dorbie. In reality, I`m not hate you. I wrote all this bosh (on any case) because I had no time to understand who offended me and whether somebody offended me (I writing my first serious program). I know, I haven`t justification. It is not creditable that I thrown out all crap which was in my head. I just want to know all "very bad" words in English. And again, thank you for all your help and excuse me if you can.

If you want to be a good programmer, my advice would be, do what you love.

Thank you for your kind words. I`m very want to be a good programmer. Not for money, just because I love this employment. Good luck!


No, it doesn't. You don't translate texts "word into word". Texts are translated according to grammatic and idiomatic rules.

Zengar, you absolutely right! But if you`ll have tried to translate "word into word", the result will be as random sets of words (Pochemu net otveta na moyo pismo. Ya znayu, ti ****aesh menya polnim zasrancem?). Sorry for my russian post, friends. I had to write something in private.

I LOVE TETRIS!!!

V-man, in Russia already written game like Tetris. It called as "STAKAN", which means "GLASS", but it`s too old game. "STAKAN" is tetris in 3D. Sense of the game: You must fill "glass" with 3D objects, which assembled from the cube blocks. This game on a plane. But you can easyly create this game really in 3D by using OpenGL.

And one more question:
Which compiler generates faster code: Object Pascal compiler (Delphi) or any C++ compiler (For example, Borland C++ Builder)?
(I warn you, it`s not my question. I know, C++ compiler generates faster code than Delphi, probably not too essentially. I know that some programmers doubts in this fact.)

THE END OF MESSAGE (And enmity and misunderstanding between all contributors).

Total summary:
1. Number of offended contributors ..... 0.00
2. Number of "bad words" in message .... 0,000,000
3. Number of contributors which spoiled
their mood by
reading this topic ..................... 0 (I hope)

raverbach
04-13-2003, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by C++:
raverbach, whether you had a respect to me in the past? If yes, why I hadn`t felt it?


C++, I really apologize if in any of my posts you felt that I lack respesct to you . That was not my intent , I was trying to point you that cocky attitudes lead us nowhere, specially in a place for learning and to become better coders.

And that was no point in making that statement about somebody elseīs mother , that probably never came to this forum.

One more time , sincerelly apologies if in any time Iīve disrespected your person.

Regards

Roderick Averbach

MickeyMouse
04-14-2003, 10:46 PM
HAPPY END!

knackered
04-15-2003, 12:19 AM
F*ck off, mouse! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Dorbie, I'm sorry for dragging you down to my level. You seem like a nice guy. Guess it's time to put away my childish things.

BTW, I'm not even black - just another example of my childishness, trying to make you feel uncomfortable.

[This message has been edited by knackered (edited 04-15-2003).]

MickeyMouse
04-15-2003, 01:29 AM
well, smilies along with "**** off"s look bit strange to me, but having read posts before, I should take it as some friendly response, no?

pi"s off knackered! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

MickeyMouse
04-15-2003, 01:31 AM
hey, i didn't know we're censored here!

M/\dm/\n
04-15-2003, 01:42 AM
I just can't say opengl.org.ru is nice page http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif Design sucks, and most of the content is about cube rendering, and even there a lot is simply translated from sources like developer.nvidia.com, opengl.org etc. I can read rusian well, as its my 2/3 language (because I know English & Russian equally), although now I am spending most of my time writing/reading in English. About page: sravnil x*j s palcom http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif No offence, but plzzzzzz grow up (everybody).

[This message has been edited by M/\dm/\n (edited 04-15-2003).]

Jan
04-15-2003, 02:11 AM
YEAH!

I AM POSTER #100 !

So could you please stop this thread now, there are really more interessting things to discuss than who is able to read russion, who is bad in english and who offended someone first.

Jan.

Zengar
04-15-2003, 04:15 AM
Originally posted by C++:
(Pochemu net otveta na moyo pismo. Ya znayu, ti ****aesh menya polnim zasrancem?).


Sasha, but I did answer your mail! Haven't you got it? I was rather wondering why aren't you writing back!


And one more question:
Which compiler generates faster code: Object Pascal compiler (Delphi) or any C++ compiler (For example, Borland C++ Builder)?
(I warn you, it`s not my question. I know, C++ compiler generates faster code than Delphi, probably not too essentially. I know that some programmers doubts in this fact.)
[/QUOTE]

hehe, it's my question. I guess this "some programers" am I.
Tom, where are you? Please help me to protect the holy Delphi!

Ok, jokes to side. C++ code should be partially more effective, because of the language syntax. But Pascal gives compiler more room for various optimisations. And tests which I seen whow that VC ++ and Delphi have about same performance level, howewer Delphi is much nicer in use. It's only my personal opinion. I don't wont to start a new holy war C++ vs. Pascal http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

C++
04-15-2003, 06:46 AM
HELLO, M/\dm/\n!
You right about www.opengl.org.ru! (http://www.opengl.org.ru!)
It is a reason why I prefered opengl.org!

Zengar!
Sorry for my russian post:
Zengar, ya ne poluchil pisma ot tebya (pochemu, sam ne znayu, ne Pushkin). Pishi mne na
raytrace@front.ru
(Hey, M/\dm/\n, stop reading! It`s not for you!)
Jdu tvoego otveta s neterpeniem.
Zengar, poluchil li ti 2 pisma ot menya?

And again: This thread`ll live FOREVER!!!
It`s far not end.

Matt Halpin
04-15-2003, 11:51 AM
I haven't read through most of this thread, but I've done some very restricted real-time ray-tracing using a 9700. Does per-pixel ray-sphere intersections and reflections as well as lighting in a pixel shader. Also does 'soft' shadows and plane intersections...

Here are some screenshots:
http://www.mhalpin.34sp.com/images/raytrace1.jpg http://www.mhalpin.34sp.com/images/raytrace2.jpg http://www.mhalpin.34sp.com/images/raytrace3.jpg

Cheers,

Matt Halpin

JustHanging
04-15-2003, 10:17 PM
That looks surprisingly good if it's indeed realtime. You wouldn't happen to be the guy who wrote the paper about this, would you? Do you think this kind of stuff could be integrated into a normal scanline engine so that you could ratrace just some reflections? With "real" scenes in realtime?

-Ilkka

NitroGL
04-15-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by Matt Halpin:
I haven't read through most of this thread, but I've done some very restricted real-time ray-tracing using a 9700. Does per-pixel ray-sphere intersections and reflections as well as lighting in a pixel shader. Also does 'soft' shadows and plane intersections...

Here are some screenshots:
http://www.mhalpin.34sp.com/images/raytrace1.jpg http://www.mhalpin.34sp.com/images/raytrace2.jpg http://www.mhalpin.34sp.com/images/raytrace3.jpg

Cheers,

Matt Halpin

Nice! How about a demo? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

Matt Halpin
04-16-2003, 02:23 AM
Nope, I haven't written any papers about it...

Well, it only really works with primitives - ie, a single pass to do the reflection of a sphere, a plane etc. Could also do a cylinder. I'm sure you could do a triangle intersection test in a shader, but you'd need 1 pass per triangle, so it'd be incredibly slow. tbh, I don't think it's really very usable as is, but it's a fun little demo.

I'll look into getting a demo available, but it's currently tied into a bigger demo that weighs in at > 12Mb, so it'll need some trimming http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

C++
05-04-2003, 01:50 PM
Hey! Why you forget my TOPIC???
Ah?

MrShoe
05-06-2003, 04:27 AM
Great thing about ray tracing is that things like shadows, bump mapping, and reflections are relatively cheap.
BTw, I dont think that its really a good idea to do ray tracing on a GPU, I mean, its not what its designed to do, and it places restritions on you that suck.
BTW, are those "real" soft shadows, or just blurred hard shadows?

Matt Halpin
05-06-2003, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by MrShoe:
Great thing about ray tracing is that things like shadows, bump mapping, and reflections are relatively cheap.
BTw, I dont think that its really a good idea to do ray tracing on a GPU, I mean, its not what its designed to do, and it places restritions on you that suck.
BTW, are those "real" soft shadows, or just blurred hard shadows?

Not sure you meant my demo?

Anyway, they're not proper soft shadows (as in multi-sampled jittered) but they're not blurred either. It just uses a ray-sphere specific trick - when you're testing to see if a real solution exists you do a >=0 test. Instead, I create a ramp multiplier based on that value so the shadow fades in around the silhouette of the sphere. It's easy to add because the comparison has to be implemented as a multiply by 0 anyway as there are no branching instructions...

btw, I agree with you about raytracing not being practical on current-gen GPUs. My demo *is* real-time, but the scene is very simple and could not be expanded without exponential slow down (literally).

Matt

wildgraf
08-20-2003, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by bonzaj:
Hello

I just wanted to say that there is a raytracing hardware chip. Its
AR350. I don't know if it a joke but take a look at www.art-render.com. (http://www.art-render.com.)

Its performance is counted in millions of Triangle/Ray Intersections.
It does radiosity and all the goodies in hardware and it works with
MAYA. I repeat I don't know if it is a joke. Check it out yourself.

BTW. a message to C++:

You can use OpenGL to speedUp your raytracing a LOT (especially for
primitives like speres etc.). The trick is to render a scene to bitmap
(WGL_RENDER_TO_BITMAP) and make a DIBSection. The section will grant
you access to its assigned memory from which you can directly read. It
is muuuuch faster than read ReadPixels. It depends only on AGP speed.
The rendered scene will show you exactly where are the requested
triangles. So You trace only once per triangle in first pass. The
other intersections you can make with octrees. The results are as
follows:

Scene 10000 tris (phong, multiple light sources, textures (without
interpolation) 40 - 50 fps on AMD 1800+ and 4xAGP.

One pain is only with triangle edges. You can find some artifacts,
which You eliminate with octrees. These artifacts are only painful
when rendering with real phong.

I like raytracing ;P

C YA.
Why you don't use OpenGL projection for other intersection or light visibility determination instead of octree? I think it isn't too hard. You've got a direction at the hitpoint, and hitpoint itself. Create a plane and project other objects on it at the hitpoint. BTW: Do you use any global illumination methods? If yes, photon mapping can be accelerated by OpenGL too.

FXO
08-21-2003, 05:33 AM
Yes!

I never understood the conflict between knackered and dorbi, but I rembember yo both from when I started learning OpenGL, you where in very intresting discussions with good input on the topics.

Having two of the openGL.org icons (IMO) fighting sucks, it degrades the whole board..

Anyways, PEACE http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

edit: spelling : /

[This message has been edited by FXO (edited 08-21-2003).]

dorbie
08-21-2003, 06:18 AM
FXO I never understood it either, but it began in the massive Doom3 rendering thread. Anyhoo, let this die the thread is MONTHS old and should never have been resurrected.

Robbo
08-21-2003, 09:50 AM
http://www.art.co.uk/

About a year ago, these guys were working in the offices below mine. Never did get around to dropping my CV at main reception! They had a nice raytraced picture on the front door of the outer corridor covered in water.

FXO
08-22-2003, 01:46 AM
Oh yeah, I remember that topic, it was an exciting time.
The arguing sucked though, instead of clearing things out it became a pride thingy with arguments about definitions.(IMHO of course)

('nuff of this thread)

davepermen
08-22-2003, 02:38 AM
i'd still like to see that raytracing demo....

^C++
08-25-2003, 10:54 AM
You are welcome!
Your curiosity hasn`t bringed you!