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nomad82
04-26-2003, 09:35 PM
Does anyone here have a tutorial/like to write a tutorial on anything that has got to do with OpenGL? (Like using a particular extension, or technique, etc.). I am looking for tutorials/articles to put up in my guest writers section at:
http://nomad.openglforums.com/tutorials2.html

Thanks.

Mihail121
04-27-2003, 04:45 AM
I can write some tutorials,3D model format specifications and articles if you want.

nomad82
04-27-2003, 06:45 AM
Mihail121: hey, that'd be great! the topic would be totally up to what you believe this community needs some more articles/tutorials on... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif. Let me know what you have chosen and when it's finished... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.


Other experts: ey, anyone want to contribute also? thanks!

DJSnow
04-27-2003, 07:02 AM
@nomad82:

i would be careful, if i where you, if the mihail121 is that "mihail..." over whom is spoken in several other online discussion boards...

Mihail121
04-27-2003, 07:18 AM
Yes i am that Mihail that you know from the other forums and i wanna ask...so?I don't understand why shoud he be carefull.Have you ever saw something from my work to tell the guy be carefull or you you've only heard words?So why you guys don't stop talking behind my back and start doing something "real" like i'm trying.Now about that tutorials.I can begin with basic system initialization(GLUT and Win32),explain some basic things like geometry,data arrays,texturing,display lists,bla-bla-bla and then get to some real things like particle systems,somo model formats,extension demos,etc.

nomad82
04-27-2003, 04:07 PM
DJSnow: hi. sorry, i haven't been around much in this discussion board. may i know what's there that i should know?

Mihail121: ey, it'd be OK also if you start with particles systems, model formats, extension demos, etc. and skip the basic GLUT and win32 stuffs.. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

rgpc
04-27-2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by nomad82:
Mihail121: ey, it'd be OK also if you start with particles systems, model formats, extension demos, etc. and skip the basic GLUT and win32 stuffs.. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

Just don't expect anything that's actually relevant to Opengl.

nomad82
04-27-2003, 11:03 PM
Mihail121: ey, sorry, i accidentally deleted your email before i got to read it...would you mind sending it again?

rgpc: hello! is there something here that i should really know? hmm...

Mihail121
04-28-2003, 12:53 AM
Yeah,you shoud really know one thing and it's very important.rgpc won't stop to talk untill everyone confess that he's the best OGL programmer on earth!

tfpsly
04-28-2003, 04:17 AM
Popcorn, anyone? Wants some coke while watching the spectacle? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/cool.gif

knackered
04-28-2003, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by Mihail121:
Yeah,you shoud really know one thing and it's very important.rgpc won't stop to talk untill everyone confess that he's the best OGL programmer on earth!

Then you're in for a very long wait - as everyone knows, I, knackered, am the best OGL programmer on earth! No matter what preacher man you confess to (catholic, muslim, hindu or jew), nothing's gonna change that fact. Amen. God bless the U S of Iraq.

Nutty
04-28-2003, 04:32 AM
Dammnit Knackered! You get all the best accolades! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif


http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

knackered
04-28-2003, 04:43 AM
Good to know hard work is rewarded in some way. If you behave like a big enough tw*t, you're awarded the "best goddam tw*t in the universe" accolade too! This is my second year as current holder! Beat saddam by a knats ar*se http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

BTW, Nutty - saw that feature article on Climax in this months Edge - no mention of you anywhere! Were you off sick that day?

Mihail121
04-28-2003, 04:51 AM
You guys "knackered" me up http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif.I really have to wait quite a long time if i wait for someone to say some good sounding jokes but it's nice to see such people really exist.Even if they aren't really joking.....

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

Mihail121
04-28-2003, 05:04 AM
Ei,Nomad.I saw that you guys are writting articles about the tutorials.Shoud i code a project or just right a n article?

rgpc
04-28-2003, 05:10 AM
I dunno knackered - I think a recount is in order - the info minister would have to be a sure thing...

nomad82
04-28-2003, 05:15 AM
sadly, i don't have any idea of what you guys are talking about...perhaps in time, when i start hanging out in this discussion board... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

Mihail121: ey, it'd be best (i guess) that an article have an accompanied source code/project. it'd be nice to have codes portable (although limiting to win32 wouldn't be a problem, since the focus would be on the topic... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif ). I have read your mail, perhaps starting with MD3 model?... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif. Thanks very much! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif. Glad to see experts wanting to write tutorials for others too... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

Mihail121
04-28-2003, 05:27 AM
Ok,i've begann working on the OpenGL system and i'll move to the tutorial itself tomorow.Don't know what will do first.Either MD2 or MD3.That's all for now.

P.S.
I will be good to have site,where people can find everything they want to know.Including articles,tutorials,bla-bla-bla-bla.Programming stuff http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Mihail121 (edited 04-28-2003).]

knackered
04-28-2003, 05:53 AM
Yeah, we could call it something like...flipcode....or....gamedev
Something catchy like that.

Mihail121
04-28-2003, 05:58 AM
Yeah!No when i think of it you're right.Just that they aren't overloaded with tutorials and code examples...

knackered
04-28-2003, 06:11 AM
Yeah, it should only take a couple of days to write a body of work to compete with the likes of this: http://www.opengl.org/developers/code/tutorials.html
or this: http://www.gamedev.net/reference/
or this: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/article_display.php?category=7
or this: http://flipcode.com/tutorials/

Don't know why nobody thought of this before.
Sorry for being condescending nomad82 - I'm sure you mean well, and maybe there is room for some extension specific tutorials.....but then again, we've always got good old Tom - http://www.delphi3d.net/

Mihail121
04-28-2003, 06:21 AM
Well you can't stop the Nomad guy from truying...

nomad82
04-28-2003, 06:37 AM
knackered: ey, no problem. something odd though: while there are a lot of websites with tons of tutorials out there, many newbies still find it difficult to get into graphics programming. my goal is to join the 'teach-them-because-i-was-once-like-them' bandwagon... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

honestly, i never thought of competing with these giant websites...i just want to help other newbies (come to think of it, maybe we are all newbies at specific topics/fields... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif ).

also, if you guys would read my second post...i said if anyone would want to write tutorials/articles that the community needs. perhaps you guys could help also instead? thanks. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.


Mihail121: hey, thanks for the encouragement.

i'm a 20 year old programmer. i know you guys don't care, but i just wanted you guys to know that i made this website to give back to the very same community that helped me (the community of people that made tutorials for newbies). this community taught me what i know, and i want to help pursue this goal also, to encourage other newbies that with enough patience and resource it's not impossible to learn new stuffs easily.

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

knackered
04-28-2003, 07:22 AM
To be brutely honest (and incredibly pious), I think there's actually too much easy access
help around nowadays.
When I started out, I had to read books (from the library) on, superficially, unrelated subjects, and
spend hours reading through the "boring" stuff just so that I could understand the things that
I needed to know. Sometimes I wouldn't even know what book to read to even get a start on some
subject or other - and I'd actually have to re-invent what other people had done before (perspective
projection and triangle clipping - I should get money for my algorithms!).
There was no bloody internet! (yes, I am that old)
As time goes on, I discovered that reading the "boring" stuff and thinking problems through has
opened up much more understanding than I could ever have gained if someone had just said - "all you need
to know is, swap these numbers round and bob's yer uncle".
Basically, if a person cannot learn, and become reasonable proficient at OpenGL from the plethora of
information around at the moment, then they should really look into doing basket weaving, or somesuch
passtime.

Mihail121
04-28-2003, 07:56 AM
And not listen to this:

I've begann with computers from the stupid QBasic trying to figure out how a programm called "TalkBot 2" works.Then there was VisualBasic and so on.BUT my parent's didn't have money and possibilty to buy me and single book so i have to read through old and crapy english documents which i ofcourse didn't quite understand.The actuall learning begann when i've discovered the Nehe's site.Cool tutorials about the cooooooo API OpenGL and other cool stuff.10x to the tutorials i can programm with OpenGL.3 years after that i've got my first OGL book but i didn't said me nothing new.The truth is simple:code samples are more usefull then anything else!

knackered
04-28-2003, 08:16 AM
So not speaking english was a major hurdle to you? You should have learned english, then - or German, Dutch, French, or any of the other languages that most important texts are written in.
As for not being able to afford any books - aren't there any libraries where you live? (libraries=place to borrow books from, free of charge).
There certainly seemed to be an internet connection....but no libraries?

Mihail121
04-28-2003, 08:31 AM
A library with computer books here in Bulgaria???Are you joking???The only way is to order it and even then it's not guaranteed that it will come.Anyway,i was learning english back then but i didn't know it very well.No ofcourse,thanks god,everything is different...

SirKnight
04-28-2003, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by knackered:
... then they should really look into doing basket weaving, or somesuch
passtime.

Already got ya covered. Look in my profile. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

-SirKnight

Mihail121
04-28-2003, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by SirKnight:
Already got ya covered. Look in my profile. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

-SirKnight



http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

Jan
04-28-2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by knackered:
So not speaking english was a major hurdle to you? You should have learned english, then - or German, Dutch, French, or any of the other languages that most important texts are written in.
As for not being able to afford any books - aren't there any libraries where you live? (libraries=place to borrow books from, free of charge).
There certainly seemed to be an internet connection....but no libraries?

You are a bit unfair. Not everyone can easily learn another language. I donīt know if you had to learn it, you seem to be english or american. Also many people start programming at an age, when you didnīt learn enough english in school to be able to read a book (about stuff which would even be hard to understand in your own language (if you are a beginner)).
Also libraries are really no help. Try to get a book about C++ in a german library. Well, some do have one or two books, but about 3D (game) programming? You are kidding! And also you have to realize, that most people are not that rich. American, english, german and a few other people are quite rich, so they are able to buy computers and books. But in many countries the people have not such a high living-standard. I am german, but still programming can be quite expensive. There are no german 3D programming books, since too few of those books are sold to make it worth to translate them. So i buy them at amazon.de and get them shipped. Every book costs 50 to 70 euro (usually 70). I think i have spent about 1000 euro only for programming books, and thatīs not really much.

What iīd like to say is, that it is quite arrogant to say, that people should not be given information too easily, if you are in a position where you get information much more easily (and cheaper) than them.

And everyone, who gets seriously into programming, will very quickly come to the point, where he has to search very intensly for information, since it is so advanced, that there are no real tutorials about it (i have experienced that quite often, already). That means that a "real" programmer will learn to develop algorithms by himself. And he will learn to search for information. But it is a hard and long way to become a good programmer, which becomes even harder every day, since technology evolves rapidly and a good programmer has to know as much of it as possible.
So why donīt help them to get started easily ? Because of nehe and others the "beginners" forum is certainly much less full of stupid questions than it would be without them.

I think i said enough now. There is so much i still have to learn about information technology, that i donīt want to spend even more time telling you my opinion about such an unimportant topic.

Jan.

JustHanging
04-28-2003, 10:32 AM
Hi,

I think knackerd is right in that there's no urgent need for new basic tutorials. If you want to help the beginners, some random tutorials won't get you very far, since that's what the net is full of. Maybe a good series of tutorials that would take the beginner through an optimal learning curve might be better, altough there are a few of those too already.

Then you could specialize on more exotic techniques, but then you're not helping the beginners anymore, I'm afraid. Game engine design is one thing there isn't as much quality information about, perhaps you could have a series of tutorials about it, preferably resulting in a fully featured game engine. Of course, Tom's got that covered too, but those articles are getting a little old already.

Anyway, if you deciede to go with a little more exotic stuff, I've got a half-written grass tutorial lying around with no place to be published in, so guess I could give it to your site. If I ever get the boring implementation part written, that is.

-Ilkka

Nutty
04-28-2003, 10:40 AM
Must've missed that issue Knackered, what was in it? Expect to hear news of what I've been working on soon... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

I remember getting my library to get in all of Michael Abrash's books sent up from some central library thing in Birmingham.. 50 pence it used to cost me. Then having to use both hands* to carry it home and scrutinize.. hehe those were the days.. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

* Zen of Assembler was bloody huuge, I was only young! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Nutty (edited 04-28-2003).]

Mihail121
04-28-2003, 10:54 AM
You're,it's damn hard,but after 2 years(with the help of god) i hope to come to study in Germany and get the hell out of this living nightmare.

knackered
04-28-2003, 11:04 AM
I used to feel the same about Manchester.
Is Bulgaria as bad as Manchester?

Nutty, Edge magazine have done a massive article on Climax this month. They've got sections on the Solent offices, Brighton offices, and Nottingham offices. Which one are you in?
What are you working on? Warhammer? MotoGP2? Sudeki?

[This message has been edited by knackered (edited 04-28-2003).]

Nutty
04-28-2003, 11:56 AM
I'm in the Solent office. Great views eh?! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

I'm not working on any of those, my project hasn't gone public yet, but it will anyday.

knackered
04-28-2003, 01:49 PM
Yep, looks pretty nice, Solent.
Good luck with the project.

nomad82
04-28-2003, 06:45 PM
knackered / justhanging: err, no, again, my second post was asking if anyone here would want to write a tutorial that you think the community needs. i mean (as an example), information/article/tutorial on photon-mapping just don't come by in gamedev/flipcoe/opengl.org do they? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif. to the people that have done photon-mapping, this would be "basic" to them, since they know it, but to those that haven't, it's not basic...

...this means that 'basic tutorial' is relative. you guys seems so assured of yourselves on what you have accomplished and seem so proud already...help others perhaps instead of showing us the struggle you went through to learn what you know... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

hope you guys know what i mean.

nomad82
04-28-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by JustHanging:
Hi,
Anyway, if you deciede to go with a little more exotic stuff, I've got a half-written grass tutorial lying around with no place to be published in, so guess I could give it to your site. If I ever get the boring implementation part written, that is.

-Ilkka

ey, sure i'll put it on my site...so long as it's finished... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif. lemme know if you're done...thanks! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

nomad82
04-28-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by knackered:
To be brutely honest (and incredibly pious), I think there's actually too much easy access
help around nowadays.
When I started out, I had to read books (from the library) on, superficially, unrelated subjects, and
spend hours reading through the "boring" stuff just so that I could understand the things that
I needed to know. Sometimes I wouldn't even know what book to read to even get a start on some
subject or other - and I'd actually have to re-invent what other people had done before (perspective
projection and triangle clipping - I should get money for my algorithms!).
There was no bloody internet! (yes, I am that old)
As time goes on, I discovered that reading the "boring" stuff and thinking problems through has
opened up much more understanding than I could ever have gained if someone had just said - "all you need
to know is, swap these numbers round and bob's yer uncle".
Basically, if a person cannot learn, and become reasonable proficient at OpenGL from the plethora of
information around at the moment, then they should really look into doing basket weaving, or somesuch
passtime.

err...i wasn't asking for opengl tutorials... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif. (again, my second post here would say what i wanted -- it seems my first post would've meant that though... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif ). so i don't understand why you're mentioning this...

but you're right, there's enough information already in learning opengl api... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

Miguel_dup1
04-30-2003, 05:55 PM
Well, I guess something you can really do knack is throw the thread off topic!!!!
Do we have some kind of throw exception error handling for this?? Maybe std::throw_exception( )?
Did you read books on that too???? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

Nomad... I have some stuff that you might want to add to your collection...

I have three different camera systems done using euler angles and quaternions... All three systems show different ways to acomplish the same end result. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif There is stuff on ROAM, on sky boxes with cube maps, sky domes and stuff... Feel free to take anything and add it to your site... Just make sure you give credit where credit is due and give appropriate references. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif http://141.217.130.254/miguel/

Yeah, that is a temp address.

-+= La Mancha =+-

nomad82
04-30-2003, 07:09 PM
Mancha: hey, thanks! at least you don't help make this off-topic... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif. saw your site and it looks like it'll be a great addition! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

nomad82
04-30-2003, 07:12 PM
Mancha: ey, i get this error that the file:
http://141.217.130.254/miguel/MY_STUFF/MY_ROAM/my_roam01.zip

(and other files) does not exist... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif.

knackered
04-30-2003, 11:25 PM
if you think what i said was off topic, then you need to read more tutorials, not write them http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

nomad82
05-01-2003, 03:46 AM
again, what i am requesting is tutorials that you guys might think that would benefit people here so i can post them at my site...speaking of personal experiences and stuffs (and telling other people to read more tutorials) are making this off-topic... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif.

why not help/volunteer instead knackered? you seem to have read oh so much before...perhaps write some on phosphorescence/fluorescence? NP/P Rendering? or other techniques/algos/topics that you have tried implementing that are on this level that is hard to found on gamedev/flipcode/opengl.org/etc... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

these topics just don't come by do they? perhaps people would read more tutorials if people would write more on them...again, i am not asking for opengl tutorials (just in case people here forget again -- i think the topic i used made this misunderstanding? but then again, you guys are smart enough to read the contents and know that i am NOT ASKING FOR OPENGL TUTORIALS...)

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

nomad82
05-01-2003, 03:47 AM
oh yeah, 'NP Rendering' is non-photorealistic rendering and 'P rendering' is well, you guys should know what it is... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

kansler
05-01-2003, 04:19 AM
What's wrong with 'easy access
help'? Why re-invent if you can save time by taking it off the net? OpenGL is also 'easy access' and there's no problem with people using it, is there?

What i'm trying to say is that tutorials are a good thing. They give people a headstart. Tutorials make OpenGL more popular, so they kind of help it's continued existance. And for me, code helps me understand algorithms better.

knackered
05-01-2003, 05:12 AM
nomad82, I've no problem with you personally, so there's no need to be so defensive.


Does anyone here have a tutorial/like to write a tutorial on anything that has got to do with OpenGL? (Like using a particular extension, or technique, etc.).

Certainly sounded like you were asking for OpenGL tutorials from your very first post in this thread.
Suddenly your requirements are for tutorials on just about anything to do with graphics other than OpenGL. Yet you complain that I have moved this thread off topic. Mmmm, strange chap you are.
If I do write some tutorials on anything useful (if I get some time in between aimless trolling of newsgroups), I'll be sure to put it on a website of my own, and provide you with a link to said website. I can't say fairer than that now can I?

nomad82
05-01-2003, 05:13 AM
kansler: i agree with you! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

nomad82
05-01-2003, 05:17 AM
knackered: elo, sorry, i didn't mean to offend you... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif. what my first post meant was if anyone would like to contribute tutorials on topics that the opengl could be used in its implementation (since this is an opengl discussion board, i assumed people here are into opengl and not direct3d http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif ). that's why i said if '(like a particular extension, or technique,etc.)'... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

...sorry for that. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif. but my second post did somewhat clear it up though (or i thought i did)... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

[This message has been edited by nomad82 (edited 05-01-2003).]

knackered
05-01-2003, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by kansler:
What's wrong with 'easy access
help'? Why re-invent if you can save time by taking it off the net? OpenGL is also 'easy access' and there's no problem with people using it, is there?

What i'm trying to say is that tutorials are a good thing. They give people a headstart. Tutorials make OpenGL more popular, so they kind of help it's continued existance. And for me, code helps me understand algorithms better.

I think I explained what was wrong with 'easy access help'.
I'll try and put it another way:
If someone's programming something and suddenly comes up against, say, a mathematical problem which they are incapable of solving, then these days people seem to either ask on a newsgroup for the answer, or search the web for an answer. At no point do they question why they don't know the answer - and at no point do they excert any extra effort to enable themselves to be able to answer any similar questions in the future - "hell, why bother? I've got t'internet and the combined brains of 1 million bored programmers with too much time on their hands to solve the problem for me."
"I've also got reems and reems of ready baked code samples to browse - ctrl+c, ctrl_v".
It's a simple point, definately worth making - and made till I'm now blue in the face.

kansler
05-01-2003, 06:19 AM
Well, I suck at math. Blame the dutch school system for this. But I do understand code. That's why my opinion differs from yours.

As long as people are having fun coding OpenGL or anything for that matter, I don't really care if they ctrl-c'ed, ctrl-v'ed.

Miguel_dup1
05-01-2003, 09:31 AM
Yeah, my bad about the files not found...
I am transfering all my work to a new server while I work some issues with my old server... So, I will prolly have everything up later today when I get out of work...

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Hey knack, nice try about reading tuts. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif
But I think I have read as many as you have. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif
Kidding dude.

Miguel_dup1
05-01-2003, 04:42 PM
It is up and running. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

nomad82
05-01-2003, 08:44 PM
ok thanks mancha, will try and download everything in your site later... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

nomad82
05-06-2003, 06:58 AM
anyone else want to contribute? (last bump, so don't worry if you're annoyed...)