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dorbie
09-21-2002, 10:39 PM
Following up on the comments of inept system builders here about the stability of ATI "drivers". I've been playing with a Radeon 9700 recently and it's very solid. I had some serious stability issues with it at first but I traced these back to one DIMM stick of my system memory. I did have problems in one mobo, but since I discovered the memory issue I never reexamined that mobo, and I'm done messing around with hardware for now.

Anyway, for anyone fretting over Radeon 9700 "driver" stability my experience is the card works just fine and is rock solid (as you'd expect given all the online reviews) although I have a recent mobo and decent RAM to run it with.

knackered
09-22-2002, 02:58 AM
So essentially what you're saying is:-
"knackered can't build PC's"

and

"I've got a 9700 running stably in one system".

Nice thread, dorbie. You will let us know if your kettle successfully boils your next cup of tea, won't you?

BTW, did your previous card work ok with your corrupted stick of memory?

Humus
09-22-2002, 04:16 AM
LOL http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

dorbie
09-22-2002, 06:17 AM
I think it's a fair post to correct the FUD you spread earlier. Now you're objecting because I've tried it.

I'm sure you can build a PC, but the process seems to involve eliminating perfectly good products because you don't know what you're doing.

As for memory, I won't bore you with the details but I have 2 identical sticks, one works the other doesn't(in > 1 mobo and GFX card but the symptoms & severity vary), it's the memory. I should have known better than to confuse you with technical stuff.

You've lauded your SGI, HP etc, PCs as the kind of system you would expect a card to work in. These are exactly the kind of systems more likely than any others to have wacky AGP drive strengths and non standard default or even hardwired BIOS options. There I go stating the obvious again.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your delusion. All those hardware review sites with working 8500s and 9700s must be wrong. Oh and I must've just got lucky eh? I'm sure that explains it, bad ATI, bad!


[This message has been edited by dorbie (edited 09-22-2002).]

jwatte
09-22-2002, 06:58 AM
Count me in on both sides of the argument.

Yesterday, my 9700 worked fine.

Today, my BIOS won't even POST with it plugged in (other cards work).

And please excuse the cross-post (as gory details are found in the user&hardware support forum).

PH
09-22-2002, 07:01 AM
My first 8500 lasted one week, then it wouldn't boot. It was faulty. After I got it replaced, it has worked without problems. Maybe you're just unlucky too http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

knackered
09-22-2002, 10:38 AM
Dorbie, why are you being so childish these days? You seemed perfectly sensible earlier this year. Arrogant, but never reduced yourself to my level, which I respected. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

I'm glad your radeon works. It looks like a good card.



These are exactly the kind of systems more likely than any others to have wacky AGP drive strengths and non standard default or even hardwired BIOS options


You've read reviews of these graphics workstations, have you? I'm sure you'll find reviews on the same websites that persuaded you to buy the 9700.
In all seriousness, dorbie, they're regarded as the most stable systems around (the ZX10 is particularly nice). We've had a few ZX10's for over a year now - they've had every kind of card stuffed in them with no trouble. The drive strengths etc. are all perfectly editable in the BIOS.
I'm not being funny, dorbie, but I have actually used ZX10's, HP's and SGI workstations as well as the radeon cards, where as I get the feeling you've only tried the radeon, but feel qualified in slagging off major brand PC builds that you haven't even tried or read reviews on. Doesn't seem very fair, does it?

Nutty
09-22-2002, 10:41 AM
Anyone got any popcorn? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

zed
09-22-2002, 10:59 AM
angus still looking for the job of moderating these boards? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif
didnt that last thread turn into a windows os bashing one,
last time i had faulty memory (btw i used to repair computer about 3 years ago for a job, + faulty memory is a very common occurance) anyways my machine under windows would only boot up halfway + then freeze with a black screen, linux on the other hand would come up with this message on the screen something like hmmmm somethings wrong with the memory lets see if i can work around it) + would happily boot up + run nice + stable.
well i thought it was cool, bugger i must be a geek.

davepermen
09-22-2002, 12:04 PM
hehe, from the first time knacky came into those forums, i knew we would have a great time with him.. and well, sit back, relax, and see him shouting around http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

nutty, can you give me the popcorn?

SirKnight
09-22-2002, 12:38 PM
Dorbie, what is your point in starting this thread? You _know_ it's going to start a war. Are you just looking for a fight? Lets try to keep the message boards free from nonsence and stay on track here. I like comming here to help any one I can and to get help myself when needed. I'm glad there are things like this on the net.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

BTW, pass some of that popcorn over here will ya? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

-SirKnight

dorbie
09-22-2002, 12:39 PM
I've used quite a few systems. I've also seen them developed from the inside and it makes your opinions seem rather riddiculous to me. You adding another graphics card in there effectively undoes all of the 'gold standard' testing done by the manufacturer. It would horrify the committees of pencil pushers who are tasked with building them (often from off the shelf parts parts).

As for throwing every card in your systems, what does it mater if nothing has drawn the power load that the latest AGP card you tried does? Or any number of other potential differences. Often motherboards just aren't up to spec but get away with it until a product that pushes the envelope arrives, that's why it pays to take a system level approach. It's also why some manufacturers simply disable features like AGP 4x on older motherboards and don't tell you.

To try a card in a bunch of old systems and then give up on the product is one thing, but to post pubicly your aquired wisdom that all these cards, ATI, and their future products you've never tried are crap and they need to improve their "drivers" is an extrapolation I'm not going to let you make without comment.

I guess disagreeing with you makes me look childish knackered but I can only choose to respond or not. It's just another observation of yours that defies an objective asessment of the content beyond superficial appearances.

On the other posts w.r.t. DOA or faulty cards, it just highlights for me that this isn't a driver issue.

PH
09-22-2002, 12:42 PM
My post about the faulty card was just a tip for jwatte. I staying out of the fight http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

Humus
09-22-2002, 12:53 PM
Enough popcorn for you guys. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif
Gotta say that while I overall respect both dorbie and knackered for their contributions on this forum I think both knackered's unfair bashing of ATi aswell as dorbie starting this thread was kinda pointless. Now behave, or no dessert for you! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/eek.gif

[This message has been edited by Humus (edited 09-22-2002).]

FXO
09-22-2002, 01:03 PM
Look what this have come to...

I had to make some popcorn, and its all your fault http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

knackered
09-22-2002, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by dorbie:
I've used quite a few systems. I've also seen them developed from the inside and it makes your opinions seem rather riddiculous to me.
What opinions? I'm telling you the facts in the context of my recent experience. I've expressed no opinions, other than the one I have of you, dorbie. The facts are that ATI cards are quite choosy about which systems they run stably on. This is not just my observation, there's armies of people with the same trouble. Just have a sniff around the internet.


You adding another graphics card in there effectively undoes all of the 'gold standard' testing done by the manufacturer. It would horrify the committees of pencil pushers who are tasked with building them (often from off the shelf parts parts).
What utter nonesense. These are not closed systems, nor do their support staff understand them to be.


As for throwing every card in your systems, what does it mater if nothing has drawn the power load that the latest AGP card you tried does? Or any number of other potential differences. Often motherboards just aren't up to spec but get away with it until a product that pushes the envelope arrives, that's why it pays to take a system level approach. It's also why some manufacturers simply disable features like AGP 4x on older motherboards and don't tell you.
This is not voodoo. Be clear about what you're saying.


To try a card in a bunch of old systems and then give up on the product is one thing, but to post pubicly your aquired wisdom that all these cards, ATI, and their future products you've never tried are crap and they need to improve their "drivers" is an extrapolation I'm not going to let you make without comment.
I recanted my recent experience with the 8500 to a guy who was asking for experiences/recommendations people have for his potential upgrade. It was appropriate and relevant for me to comment, dorbie.


I guess disagreeing with you makes me look childish knackered but I can only choose to respond or not.

No, disagreeing is not childish - insulting my PC building skills is childish. Especially seeing as though it is irrelevant to anything I've been talking about. It's just childish, in the same way I keep deriding you for being scottish is also childish - but at least I admit that.

Amen, and goodbye.

dorbie
09-22-2002, 01:29 PM
I was perfectly clear. I'm not just insulting your PC building ability for the sake of it, you're forcing me to offer the more rational explanation for your systems failure and with every post you reinforce that view.

knackered
09-22-2002, 02:43 PM
But, but, but these aren't PCs I've built..?

IT
09-22-2002, 03:09 PM
I've hand built well over 100 computers in my lifetime (I used to sell them), and it's a hit and miss deal all around...

For instance, on of the many computers I use currently is a newly built (by me) P4 with an ATI 9700 and it's rock solid stable. It's been running non-stop for the several weeks I've had it.

In my previous experiences, I've had Creative Labs Sound card problems with Via chipsets, GeForce 2MXs and 3s lock up tight at random on Intel BX chipsets because of some looping thing (so they say, driver updates didn't help), ATI Rage Pros not work because BIOS and driver problems, motherboards bad out of the box, hard drives bad out of the shrink wrap, and countless other things.

One always wonders why X works with Y but not Z.

All around, getting PCs to work is a pain in the ass sometimes, but that's what makes them fun, right?! :-)