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View Full Version : (shamelessly off topic) Call for moderators



Julien Cayzac
05-07-2003, 10:43 AM
Hi,
Due to the increasing number of trolls, flamewars, and other abuses in this forum, I decied to go on and abuse it myself, posting a poll in a coding related forum.
Maybe this thread will be noticed by webmasters, so our various opinions may be read... BTW, what are they? Do you want to have this forum moderated, or do you prefer keeping it in his current form in spite of the late pollution?

Julien.

C++
05-07-2003, 10:54 AM
Ha-ha-ha!

C++
05-07-2003, 10:56 AM
Hey, guys!
Where is our moderators?
Delete this nasty topic "DirectX->Direct3D" as soon as possible!

Nutty
05-07-2003, 01:02 PM
I prefer moderation. As long as the moderators aren't too strict.. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

*cough*shamelessplug*cough* my own forums are moderated. Any crap posted and its removed within 24 hours. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Nutty (edited 05-07-2003).]

knackered
05-07-2003, 01:30 PM
I think you're all old enough and ugly enough to put up with the odd dickhead such as myself & C++ without the need for moderators (or your mother, as Freud would suggest).

rgpc
05-07-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by knackered:
I think you're all old enough and ugly enough to put up with the odd dickhead such as myself & C++ without the need for moderators (or your mother, as Freud would suggest).

Personally I volunteer to moderate this list. Really all that needs to be done is locking threads posted by C++ (*ahem*) and other butt heads that don't understand the relevance of the words "OpenGL" and "Advanced".

I also think Jon's suggestion of "Three strikes and you're gone" is a good one.

Moderators are definitely needed - 11 out of the 40 threads on the first page are nube/OT questions with a couple more being borderline...

Eric
05-08-2003, 12:06 AM
I volunteer as well, although I am not on these forums as often as I used to. But the reason is precisely that I got fed up with trolls posting anything and everything. Having to read 10 useless posts to find 1 interesting one really killed me...

Anyway, as far as moderators are concerned: I remember asking the web master of this forum to delete one or two posts in the past (you know the kind of post with "We can help you earn $100000 in 3secs!!!") and he did it.

Perhaps we should contact him directly to see if they would be able to get a moderator on the forums or if they would nominate one of us to do the job.

I know we SHOULDN'T need a moderator but what can you do against kiddies like C++ who spend their time posting useless messages? Even if we don't answer his posts, his IQ of around 5 will lead him to post again and again. Granted, he will eventually get off the forum but you can be sure that one of his kind will come the minute after he leaves...

I don't really want a moderator who will decide e.g. which post should be in Beginners or Advanced forum (i.e. move topics). What I want is a moderator who can close topics and ban people who are abusing the forums...

Regards,

Eric

Julien Cayzac
05-08-2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by knackered:
I think you're all old enough and ugly enough to put up with the odd dickhead such as myself & C++ without the need for moderators (or your mother, as Freud would suggest).

I partially agree, while I think this kind of OT/trolling/childish posts is bad publicity, and potentially new users may not join because of them.

Julien.

knackered
05-08-2003, 12:21 AM
Someone once said something along the lines of:
"Anyone who actively seeks to be a politician should immediately be prohibited from being a politician".
I think that applies to moderators too.
Eric, I'm sorry but I don't believe you stopped visiting this forum because of an outbreak of trolls...whatever your reasons for it, the trolling could not have been a significant one - there simply aren't enough troll posts in this forum (10-1 ratio?! Are you kidding? You must have been in the wrong forum). Or are you getting confused between trolling (such as c++) and beginners posts?

[This message has been edited by knackered (edited 05-08-2003).]

Julien Cayzac
05-08-2003, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by Eric:
Perhaps we should contact him directly to see if they would be able to get a moderator on the forums or if they would nominate one of us to do the job.


I did it, as V-Man and maybe others did. No answer so far. Perhaps it means it's "in progress", who knows.

Julien.

Eric
05-08-2003, 12:42 AM
knackered,

I think you are probably right: beginner questions started the thing but then I realised people posting them had some good arguments (mainly that their questions were not answered when posted in the Beginners section).

Then came trolls (and I mean it). I should have a look to give names (I'll do if you really want) but there were some and it made the forum much less interesting.

One last thing is that even regular contributors sometimes get out of their head insulting each other (recent example can be found...).

So you're right, it's not only the "trolling" thing. But in all 3 cases I mentioned, a moderator would help (although as I said I am not sure moving topics between forums is a solution).

As for me asking to become a moderator, it's more a way of making the point that one is needed rather than me really wanting to do the job (as I said, I am not on theser forums often enough to be useful at this...).

Anyway, I visit other forums (not coding related) that are moderated and I really think it can be a good thing.

Regards,

Eric

Mihail121
05-08-2003, 02:10 AM
Why don't we all become moderators and let the simple guys rule us http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif?

M/\dm/\n
05-08-2003, 02:28 AM
Yea, I'm for moderators!!!!!!!!
And actually we need more specialized topics as in gamedev net. It would be nice to split beginners/advanced to beginners/intermediate/advanced!

Eric
05-08-2003, 02:46 AM
Just had a quick look through the archives and found some interesting topics about behaving correctly (shame on me!) and moderators:
http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/Forum3/HTML/003709.html
http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005830.html

Just to say that this has been discussed a million times and I guess there will never be a solution for these forums.

By the way, I am wondering what happened to the "new forums" that were to be created...

Nutty
05-08-2003, 04:33 AM
It would be nice to split beginners/advanced to beginners/intermediate/advanced!

Nah, thats a crap way to do it. Whats beginner material for one, is advanced for another.

It would be better to have distinct categories like;

Core GL. (texturing, arrays, the usual jaff)
Shaders. (fragment programs, vertex programs etc..)
Rendering Concepts (engine stuff, quadtrees, data methods)

etc..
thats how I did mine.

Obli
05-08-2003, 06:06 AM
I agree on moderators - personally I was used to post only in beginner's section (leaving the advanced to the people who are doing business with GL), I started to post in advanced when I saw other people didn't care.

My vote also goes on the basic/intermediate/advanced thing. It's easier to do. I fear things like "shaders", "core" and stuff may require more work which I surely don't need to explain to you, you can figure out yourself.

Maybe we can drop togheter some mails for that. I personally didn't, but I'll do if needed. GL forums needs to me moderated even because GL it's an industry standard and a model so, their forums should be also...

roffe
05-08-2003, 10:50 AM
I definately vote for Nutty's idea. And the reason is this, having another "skill" category(intermediate) just extends the problems we have today. People will post in the forum that matches their own experience, not the standards virtually defined here.The moderator could of course move posts, but it would be better if they ended up in the right place to start with. Having topic forums is better just because it removes the subjectivness(valid word?) of the poster.In other words, it is better for everyone if the poster has to decide between, lets say lighting/tetxuring/etc than newbie/uber-coder/godlike.

My two cents...

Jan
05-08-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by rgpc:
I also think Jon's suggestion of "Three Strikes and you're gone" is a good one.


Yeah, i like that idea. But only registered contributors must be allowed to do this. Maybe for every 5th post one has done (which got not deleted by the others), one shall be allowed to mark someone else´s post as "bad".
If there are no such restrictions, people like C++ register a thousand times and delete everyone´s posts.

Jan.

pkaler
05-08-2003, 11:28 AM
I like Nutty's forums. Phpbb is much more featureful. The topics are layed out more sensibly. I believe Nutty put up the forum the last time we had this discussion.

There just isn't enough traffic and enough interesting discussions. We need the regulars to move over for that to be a success. To do my part, I'm linking to the forums in my posts. I encourage others to as well.

PK
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Nutty's OpenGL Forum (http://opengl.nutty.org/forum/index.php)

jwatte
05-08-2003, 12:46 PM
Here are the first 10 threads from right when I write this:

1. Collision Testing
2. Distributed Computing Using Toasters Connected With Baling Wire
3. Changing Color While Rotating
4. Call For Moderators
5. Earth Shadow How To
6. Quake 2 Source Code, or Mine Is Prettier Than Yours
7. Alternative To "Order Independent Transparency"
8. How To Match Millimeters With Pixels
9. Setting GL_PROJECTION_MATRIX?
10. Performance of This Demo Improved by Multitexturing Extension

I'd say 7. and possibly 10. aren't too off topic from "advanced OpenGL", although 10. probably should have gone to "beginners". 3. 5. and 9. are mostly beginners questions, too, although some of them are more about how to create art, rather than OpenGL.

1. 2. 4. 6. and 8. aren't even remotely on-topic.

knackered
05-08-2003, 01:27 PM
jwatte, without the posts you list, there would be NO posts. If there's so many off topic posts, why do you bother frequently visiting this forum, and dare I say it, replying to the offtopic/beginners questions?

KuriousOrange
05-08-2003, 01:33 PM
Mr.Watte,
I apologised for my offtopic post about the quake2 source code as a preface - the topic had OT (ish).
It wasn't completely offtopic, because I was more concerned with Carmacks use of OpenGL than anything else - it's frequent contributors that turned it into a c++ vs c debate - that was far from my mind when making my initial post.
Thankfully, I don't have to apologise to anyone.

kieranatwork
05-08-2003, 01:38 PM
I don't understand why this topic keeps coming up. Why don't you all just accept the contents of the forum? If you don't like it, go to Nutty's forum, or somewhere else. Can't you get it out of your heads that this is a public forum? And just as people can say what the hell they like in a public bar, so they can say what the hell they like here. God knows why you select few think you've got the right to say what and what not should appear here. If a moderator was appointed, and he/she decided that jwatte spouted a load of rubbish (basically, if they didn't agree with his opinion, or right to express it), would you find that unfair?
The "OpenGL Advanced" title is a general guideline to the topics on discussion, not a bloody dictate.

kehziah
05-08-2003, 02:25 PM
Seeing the growing number of off-topic and beginers posts here, I asked myself "what's an advanced OpenGL question ?" Quick answer : a question about an advanced feature of OpenGL. Now, what would you ask about an advanced feature? Chances are you will ask about the functionnality, which is API independant (it is a concept, like "what is cube mapping good for?", "can I use dependent texture reads to do this or that?", or whatever you like). If you ask about the API itslef, the answer is 99% of the time in the spec, or in the numerous demos posted on IHVs' developers sites. The 1% left is when the spec is ambiguous, or when an implementation has a bug and produce incorrect results.

V-man
05-08-2003, 03:16 PM
kehziah,

of course a lot of the information is in spec files and all over the net for that matter.
By that logic, you dont need to go to school. Just sit at home and read all you can.

This is a place for meeting and for discussion by people who have a good quantity of experience with GL (and if you want to include math, 3D graphics in general, that's fine IMO).

Some people cross the line and they obviously dont belong here.

pkaler
05-08-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by kieranatwork:
I don't understand why this topic keeps coming up. Why don't you all just accept the contents of the forum? If you don't like it, go to Nutty's forum, or somewhere else. Can't you get it out of your heads that this is a public forum? And just as people can say what the hell they like in a public bar, so they can say what the hell they like here.

And just like a public bar. Others can beat you up for hitting on their girlfriend, making fun of their mother, spilling beer on them, peeing on the toilet seat, smoking in their face.

To continue with the horrible analogy. Nutty invites you to his house party.

PK
-----------------------
Nutty's OpenGL Forum (http://opengl.nutty.org/forum/index.php)

pkaler
05-08-2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by knackered:
jwatte, without the posts you list, there would be NO posts. If there's so many off topic posts, why do you bother frequently visiting this forum, and dare I say it, replying to the offtopic/beginners questions?

Please lay off jwatte. His posts to this board and others round the net are intelligent, insightful, and much appreciated.

PK
------------------------
Nutty's OpenGL Forum (http://opengl.nutty.org/forum/index.php)

Shag
05-08-2003, 04:01 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't post here very often anymore ... when I did It was for an answer to a specific question, or maybe (?) help someone.

It seems to me that this forum has gedenerated into nothing more than an ego match between all you 'experts'. Maybe I'm wrong ... but this is a public forum where all opinions should count. Ok - a degree of moderation should be here - although it should be restricted to moving posts to the proper forum, or removing idiots like C++. Other than that, I'd say leave it alone.

I don't post here often, but I read it all the bloody time, and I'm quite pleased with it.

To break up the format of this forum would be a bigger sin. Thgis is the only place where you can get a truly expert opion on certain subjects. And if you decide to go elsewhere, it would be a bigger shame for OpenGL.

Regards

jwatte
05-08-2003, 07:12 PM
I didn't actually make a value judgement in my post. (Though it's illuminating to see how differently some other posters reads it ;-)

heath
05-08-2003, 08:11 PM
Personally I find the OpenGL advanced forum fine. As nice and organized as Nutty's forum is, I prefer the simplicity of just quickly browsing the main page, see if there are any interesting topics, and moving on if nothing peaks my interest.

Having to dig down into subtopics doesn't give me the sense of community, It actually seems to dilute it.

As far as Trolls are concerned you guys should just not respond.

Heath.

rgpc
05-08-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by jwatte:
1. Collision Testing


Actually it wasn't intended to be a "Collision" detection post at all, rather it was meant to be similar to a post I remember titled "Shameless plug". So I've made a note in my post to that effect...

Other than that, I agree with jon. As for "why do we care what people post" I ask "why don't we just have 1 global forum where everyone discusses everything...?"

The reason there would be "No" posts without the 10 (ahem 9 http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif) jon mentioned is probably the reason the number of posts on the OPENGL-GAMEDEV mailing list appears to have increased...

M/\dm/\n
05-08-2003, 10:25 PM
Spliting advanced/beginners up to 5 forums would cause HUGE jumping every time I wanted to JUST READ all the recent topics. I think the Nutty's forum is split too much. But it would be nice to have:
"Super-newbies" forum, with questions like how can I create window with GLUT http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif , WTF is glColor3f etc.
"Intermediate" all the standartized OGL 1.4 things MultiTexturing, extension loading, syntax for some semi intermediate stuff etc.
"And GL Gods forum" shaders, vbo's, creative ideas etc.

Otherwise if I have beginer question like how glTextureCoordPointers ar specified for multitexturing, I just won't get answer at beginners forum, but that's 1000000000 miles to advanced too http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif

kieranatwork
05-09-2003, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by rgpc:
Other than that, I agree with jon. As for "why do we care what people post" I ask "why don't we just have 1 global forum where everyone discusses everything...?"

"We"? This isn't your forum, this isn't my forum - this is just a forum set up on opengl.org's server. You have no more say in what is posted here than c++. If you want to influence posts on a forum, set your own up and moderate it yourself.
In the meantime - forget all this and get on with some work! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

rgpc
05-09-2003, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by kieranatwork:
"We"? This isn't your forum, this isn't my forum ...

Good on you...

kansler
05-09-2003, 02:23 AM
Why do guys like C++ represent a problem? Because lots of users here reply to really stupid topics like 'DirectX->Direct3D'. Just ignore posts like these and lame posters like C++ will give up (eventually).

VikingCoder
05-09-2003, 06:09 AM
In my personal opinion, the best way to do it would be to have the moderated version be topic-moderated (in that all new topics have to be approved), but post-open (in that anyone can post anything they want to any topic.) I think that's the best of both worlds.

M/\dm/\n
05-09-2003, 06:23 AM
I guess everything beginners need is somewhere in "search", but that ain't funny http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

C++
05-09-2003, 09:11 AM
By the way, I`m absolutely agree with "kansler"`s words. I`m not your problem. Your problem is those who posting even if theme is exhausted. For example, why you still posting to here?
Or you don`t see that this topic isn`t "OpenGL advanced"?
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l33t
05-09-2003, 08:00 PM
r u l33t/ 1 m l33t.