Something for my (semi)automatic text to 3d-graphics/animation/game/movie conversion

[vedaviz]

OpenGL is a fancy triangle drawing system. It has no notion of a "keyboard", "mouse" or any other input device.

So yes, it is a "bid problem".

The point is that this forum is for talking about things that should be in OpenGL. If you're going to ask for a feature to be added to OpenGL, you first need to understand what OpenGL is and is not.

sorry, "big". ok, if you mind this topic to be here - you can move into any other category, but please do not delete it... I just posted it there, becasue also wanted to talk with developers of opengl and know the opinion of what I say. Usually people say - idea is good, but how to implement it? Some poeple say it is very good, others may say it is very bad. But anyway I want to be with those who think positively, who have 'successful stories' and not with those who are utopists, pessimists. Yes, I don't offer to make "time machine" or "perpetuum mobile", nor to "invent a wheel". I just want to use those technologies which are alrady there. The thing is that I was close to both languages and arts, and programming, so what I say - I don't find this impossible, rather - possible. So for this reason I gave few example...

[vedaviz]

Yeah, guess what: Those assets, i.e. images, animated or still, are not generated but seem to be created manually. The mapping between a word and an image is trivial and animation and interaction in the story machine are obviously predefined as well. The thing is you didn't ask for the normal way of doing thing, i.e. creating stuff and then working with it, you wanted to provide a description of something in textual form and have it somehow transform into a 3D game or movie.


For that, you'll either have to procedurally generate the virtual world you want to render and/or interact with or you'll have some predefined assets, i.e. models and texture etc., and some pretty extensive logic handling rendering(static and dynamic, i.e. animations), user interaction, collisions and sound as the barest minimum. For rendered movies you'll need pretty much the same except for the interactions part. And how does your code come along? You'll need a code generator which is able to capture all the concepts of a modern game and replicate them as a working program. If you can do that in a man's lifetime - please go ahead and let it show. I'd love to play that game.

In my opinion you have a severe misunderstanding of how computer games or computer animated movies are done - there's a reason something like the spinnaker story machine didn't survive.

well, I know how to do 3d object in any 3d software. I know this. And I also know some games from inside - I have seen even some old games with available toolkits - like those for doom, quake etc. They just have some 3d models-objects, level editors. The hardest thing there is computer "artificial intelligence", but see - even AI is already there in comp games - computer can do something what he is asked to - and characters can do this or that, computer can play chess and even win sometimes. As for spinnaker story machine - yes, of course it is very small program, - just some 15-20 nouns, and some 15 verbs, half of them are duplicates, only two prepositions. But pronouns do work, articles are there, numerals work to produce plural, and verbs do animation actually. So isn't that wonderful???! As for
"In my opinion you have a severe misunderstanding of how computer games or computer animated movies are done - there's a reason something like the spinnaker story machine didn't survive."
well, I can get a camera and make own video. any problem? video cameras are available. anyone can make a movie - that's youtube. and anyone can make a game - hundreds of game constructors are there, game engines etc. But as I learned progrminng, even assembler (yes, I know Iczelion's manuals, masm32 - macro assembler etc), I am not very satisified with simple game creators. And I want Opengl and computer graphics animation to be used for something more beneficial like edutainment at least - play game - but learn at same time. So for this reason I like more - logic games, or some others which make one think and not just "killing" games etc. I realize that this idea is about creativity, that one who makes a movie or game - he puts there "a soul" or "a heart", so thus it is more or less humane, alive, and not just like a "dead machine". And I do not want in this way to stop one from thinking while reading any text. But people watch movies - they like it more. Even Alice from wonderland said - "a book without pictures is not interesting"... So if I can give into a program at least some simple text like fairy tale for children etc - this is a good material for creating 3d scene or game or cartoon movie comix etc... well, I'll do something - then I'll show you.

but thank you...

"Yeah, guess what: Those assets, i.e. images, animated or still, are not generated but seem to be created manually. The mapping between a word and an image is trivial and animation and interaction in the story machine are obviously predefined as well. The thing is you didn't ask for the normal way of doing thing, i.e. creating stuff and then working with it, you wanted to provide a description of something in textual form and have it somehow transform into a 3D game or movie. "
yes, of course I understand that all data in computer can appear there only when people do something - they input some 101010 which are either animation code (some commands of CPU in assembler -like jz, jnz - for logic, some arithmetic commands etc) - or they are different data. I guess GPU also does something very similar to this. Yes, we input data into computers, and they can be either true or not, something in a game or movie can be a myth, truth or not, 0 or 1, but noone cares. that is not important for computer - he I mean it just stores information and does what it is asked to do.

"The mapping between a word and an image is trivial and animation and interaction in the story machine are obviously predefined as well. "
yes and no - both. On one side - it is easy to match a word with a picture for me - in some GDI+ (I use creategraphics, and then commands to DrawImage from some file or from imagelist). But I do not know how to do same in OpenGL, so thus I want to ask that. I just need some command to load some 3d object using one command line, so that 3d object appear on screen. And one line to apply some 3d animation to loaded 3d object - so that will correspond to verb in text. I know this is close to Artificial intelligence... But I feel I can do this. (well, I leanr philosophy, logic, holy scriptures and faith in God gives me inspiration to make this "automatic text-to-game/movie" program, or knowledge-visualization program. I call it Veda Viz, because I want to visualize something from Vedas more than from other books, but this is not very important on this forum I think, because you are interested in Aristotle and his logic, I mean he founded this school which created science technology unlike Plato Sokrates who are more transcendentalists. Well it is history of philosophy, another question)...

I want to use some database like MySQL to store there all opengl 3d objects, which I can load and show on screen. So in my program can be not just 20+15 nouns/verbs like in spinnaker story machine, but probably thousands or even 10 000 nouns|3d objects and scripts for animation. Does OpenGL has any database so I can use it instead of ImageList which I use in Visual Studio (GDI+)? Of course it can provide even pictures for animation - they are like "frames" say there can be frames for different views. But these are raster, and opengl can show in 3d, from different camera views. So I don't want to use just 2d raster pictures, if 3d objects are available.

"you wanted to provide a description of something in textual form and have it somehow transform into a 3D game or movie. "
I understand that natural language and programming languages are different, but it is only advantage - in our case we can just simplify complicated human language text into simplified text and convert into computer commands. Just like robots with AI - they are asked to do this or that - and they do it - even move. But this is easier to just draw this on screen without need to make a robot - just show those computer character robots etc on screen.

"models and texture etc., and some pretty extensive logic handling rendering(static and dynamic, i.e. animations), user interaction, collisions and sound as the barest minimum. For rendered movies you'll need pretty much the same except for the interactions part. And how does your code come along? You'll need a code generator which is able to capture all the concepts of a modern game and replicate them as a working program. If you can do that in a man's lifetime - please go ahead and let it show. I'd love to play that game."

yes, models, textures - easily - I just recently downloaded for free a program daz3d - it is not even pirated (and my Visual Studio Express is also legal and windows etc, but it is another question but I want to prove that I'm also doing everything legally and not stealing). So I could convert that into directx, and if I can just open .x file in Visual Studio - that will look nice. The hard work - is to get all those 3d objects from internet - get those which are free - find then, not movies on youtube. and those object from different file formats are to be converted into one file format which opengl can open. I see that opengl has no "editor", and no ".x" alternative format. but I find that it can use some .c , .cpp files, and they can generate what to do - and finally to show 3d objects.

"sound as the barest minimum.", no I don't plan to include there much keyboard/mouse interaction - it should just produce something like movie which I can just see that's all (remember movie matrix??? you can load any program into brain... though it may sound dangerous, but I solved this ethics problem - we will not put "plugs" into brains :-) )... and as for sound. that is also not a primary thing for this program. It may even not produce any sounds/music, but only show animated graphics.

"If you can do that in a man's lifetime - please go ahead and let it show. I'd love to play that game.""
yes, I can give you different links. But anyway, most important I tell you. If you like you can do it yourself, if you understand. But as I see nobody do this - so "the best is to do it yourself"... but I want copyright to be on side of vedaviz(c) that's all. Maybe it can even be opensource, but thus - donationware. because now I'm not earning on it.

" please go ahead and let it show. I'd love to play that game."
yes, I want to this in Visual Studio + OpenGL first. Or with Xcode with opengles for ipad iphone. it would be much nicer than widgit or spinnaker story machine. I'ld take best of all these technologies and put them into one. It is not very new idea - even chinese hieroglyphs also have same idea - some hyeroglyphs look very close to what they represent... so there are even movies where hyieroglyphs become animated and go alive. (well, why I studied chinese at school? maybe to make this program??)
..

but my thought is that - either I do it good - in opengl directx 3d, or don't do it all and be satisfied with that what others did (widgit, story machine etc)... but I want to do my best to do something better. I 'm sure I can solve problems with analyzing text (machine translation is now quite advanced etc), but I just want to solve 3d-graphics part.

[vedaviz]

In my opinion you have a severe misunderstanding of how computer games or computer animated movies are done - there's a reason something like the spinnaker story machine didn't survive.

probably I just don't know opengl well, this is more important to learn something in this direction.

[vedaviz]

problem is that spinnaker story machine was under-estimated. but it s a very nice program, and I think this was a very important program which helped to create better programs/games etc...

[vedaviz]

see this program -
http://www.alice.org/index.php?page=alice3/download
it can do something what I say - but one has to write a code in some form, and one has to use predefined objects. that is all right, but at least it should be possible to add new...

it uses many objects -
http://www.alice.org/index.php?page=gallery/index
and they are 3d and they can animate... but here animation is not much related with text.
Everything is to be written in programming language, not in natural language like in spinnaker story machine or in widgit.

but simply 3d objects without animation is not very interesting...
so animation is a key for a program to be interesting (so story machine is better than widgit in this sense)

spinnaker story machine is here -
http://www.ccs64.com/
( http://www.ccs64.com/CCS64%20V3.9%20Install.zip )
http://www.get-your-rom.com/rom/stor...4-commodore-64
http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/ap...ry_Machine.pdf

ARTICLES
A
AN
THE THIS THAT THESE THOSE SOME

NOUNS
APPLE(S)
BOX(ES) BOY(S) BUMPUS(ES) CAT(S) DOG(S) FENCE(S) FLOWER(S) GIRL(S) HOUSE(S) ROCK(S) STORE(S) TREE(S)

ADVERBS
NOW SOMETIMES LATER SOON

VERBS
ZOT(S) DANCE(S) EAT(S)
GO(ES) HOP(S) JUMP(S) KISS(ES) RUN(S) SING(S) WALK(S)

pronouns:
HE
HIM
HIS
SHE HER HERS IT
ITS THEY THEM THEIRS

PREPOSITIONS
NEAR TO

[vedaviz]

Scribblenauts Remix:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax47L...feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54OkZ...9eRVAAAAAAAAAg

[Dan Bartlett]

As other people have said, this has nothing to do with OpenGL - see these FAQs:
http://www.opengl.org/wiki/FAQ#What_is_OpenGL.3F
http://www.opengl.org/wiki/FAQ#What_is_NOT_OpenGL.3F

And even if these problems were graphics related problems, they wouldn't be suitable suggestions to go into the next version of OpenGL - ie. The specification documents found at http://www.opengl.org/registry/

[vedaviz]

see, I found some article - it is some reasearch for philosophy degree -
it solves simialr problem -
text- to 3d animation. they made a program Confucius

http://www.paulmckevitt.com/phd/mathesis.pdf
Automatic Conversion of
Natural Language to 3D Animation

Minhua Ma
B.A., M.A., M.Sc.

Faculty of Engineering
University of Ulster





A thesis submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements
for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy
July 2006

[vedaviz]

Thanks to everyone here... Yes, now I see it was not right to think to make up such technology in OpenGL, without using some higher level software like Game Physics engines etc...
I see now there is a vacancy -
http://www.filmlanguage.net/we-need-a-programmer.html
Our Moscow office is looking for a talented, ambitious, self-directed developer who will guide the fundamental development of the FilmLanguage, which we believe will change the way people produce animation and visualize creative ideas globally:

- Specialist should have extensive programming experience and should be excited and challenged by the opportunity to build a remarkable new technology from the ground-up.

- Very organized and can manage large-scale complex projects and build a roles-based, community architecture.

- Extremely competent coder who’s comfortable in multiple languages, frameworks, and environments.

- Intensely hard-working, proactive, and self-motivated individual that thrives on risk and uncertainty and looks forward to working with A-players.

Requirements:

• Deep knowledge of C++. Practical experience 3+ years.
• Experience with game engines and 3D graphics.
• Good teamwork and communication skills.
• Experience with version control systems, bug trackers, and continuous integration systems.
• Intermediate English level (tech documentation, e-mail communication)
• Good problem solving skills

Pluses:

• Knowledge of С#
• Experience with Unity 3D
• Experience in multi-threaded development
• Experience in client-server development
• WinForms, WPF

Candiate will be hired under Russian law and should be eligible for employment.

Please send your resumes to: jobs@filmlanguage.ru

--
so they are using Unity3d to make such FilmLanguage which converts text or movie script into animation/action...
there is a working program - http://obosmeisya.ru/gallery - it generates a comix animation movie "ChromoSapiens" about two robots... They can generate speech and do some simple actions like going, moving hands, head etc etc...
I see that my idea appeared on this website
http://www.filmlanguage.net/
and is now copyrighted by one big Russian Movie company - Bazelevs (Innovations)...
So I think I'll learn Unity3d and C++/# to do something in this direction or even work there... let's see.

Anyone who is still interested to know what this technology is about, in short I can say:
there is linguistic part - it uses ABBYY Compreno technology to find all kinds of words in text and tag them (part of speech, some other logical categories) - and then they are converted into some macros - for Unity3d. So if there is text like "John goes" Macros would create a "Character controller" in Unity3d and apply there a script in C++/# to let him go here or there - according to next text... So I am happy to some extend that this idea is now realized, and even very fast...
I just started talking about in some end of 2009 - beginning of 2010 - with some people in Movie/Theatre Institute for animation, and they most probably said about this idea to other people, and finally it came to Bazelevs, Timur Bekmambetov. So in end of 2010 they registered Bazelevs innovations and made a research - discovered that this technology is wanted by most Hollywood companies, though only russian Fund of Skolkovo could give money for that (not even Hollywood or USA)... So they tried in different ways - how to let it work - rewrote thousands of lines of code, but finally after some 1 year they made a working version, and now there are some 30 people working in Bazelevs Innovation on this FilmLanguage.. This technology would be used for pre-visualization of movies - on the stage of "converting" ideas and scripts, texts of movies - into movies. So this technology helps not to just previsualize a movie - by using some 3d editors - what and how which character or actor should do, but this technology combines two all sides of process of converting idea into movie... So result is very interesting.. There are also some movies on Bazelevs Innovations (in Russian it sounds as Базелевс Инновации, Киноязык, Сколково)... It seems to be a future technology, but now it is just in development, and only core ideas can be implemented.
For example, site http://obosmeisya.ru/ (means "laughing out") which uses FilmLanguage, can support only two characters or robots, text should be written in some form, and there are limitations - text should be "adopted" by script editor, so it is then possible to use it in ABBYY Compreno
http://www.abbyy.ru/science/technolo...ness/compreno/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABBYY#ABBYY_Compreno
This technology innovation is also based in same Skolkovo innovation center... So they work together on FilmLanguage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skolkovo_innovation_center

At present, Skolkovo Fund gave around 20 000 000 $ for FilmLanguage, Bazelevs innovation (according to sources, it was some 5 000 000 $ in beginning)..

[Nowhere-01]

this is hilarious. a prime example of massive self-confident ignorance only the people from my country can produce. it's like... you don't even know where to start, retarded on so many levels. and he won't stop until you start to ignore him. don't waste your time explaining.