Something for my (semi)automatic text to 3d-graphics/animation/game/movie conversion

[vedaviz]

Anyone here, please listen and give me any advices if you can.
Or if it is about implementing something new into OpenGL to make it possible to do what I want - let it be here...

So I want to make a program which can automatically convert text into movie or game.
I made something here - http://sourceforge.net/projects/vedaviz/
In this program I open text file (rtf), and select words (and automatically also),
add to them different images (2d, raster - jpg etc), and place them on a screen.

So, any OpenGL editor seem to be something like this, especially if that is some 3d-editor, like 3dsmax, game editor etc. The only thing is that one who makes games - he has to have a scenario in his mind, then click necessary text menus, icons, buttons, select 3d objects or create them manually using some 3dsmax etc, then animate objects according to scenario of game etc... But problem here is that it takes a lot of time for a neophite to create some nice game or 3d model for some simple text/scenario (I say scenario in meaning "movie scenario", not in sense "scenario" in computer progamming).
So this is actually a problem which I am facing.

I know some Visual Basic, C (.net express 2010), now installed xcode for macos, I learned some assembler for windows (masm32), but trying hard to let it possible to make all these programming languages work well with opengl (or opengles on xcode for mac-os - that is development for ipad, iphone). So I can only make a simple program to place 2d images on a screen and do simple "animation", which is very slow - because .NET uses slow GDI(+). I wanted to try DirectX but it seems to be available only for Windows, and convert from it to Opengl can be hard. So I also tried to use some editors which can open 3d objects for 3dsmax or for some games, and convert them into .c code for opengl (or directx), but this seem to be not working well... I have problem that I see there are so many different companies and technologies, software and hardware products, that I can't make a choice and concentrate on something and just learn it - say - what should I learn - Opengl for win or for mac-so, or opengl-es for ipad/iphone, and there is also android. I want my program to be available on every platform, to survive in time, that I don't have to throw away my knowledge if I will learn deep something of opengl/es etc for this or that hardware/software technologies.

So, problem is that I need some advice from OpenGL - probably even developers - which programming language is best for my case, which platform is better? I understand that this is not a very big difference, and I think that Mac-OS is better, but then how can I develop there with OpenGL - and for Windows? I don't even know how to develop in Mac-OS-X for this same platform - it seems to have patterns only for iphone/ipad opengles. so why not opengl - without ES simplification? well, it is another question for mac-os xcode/apple developers. But I want to ask you that you suggest what YOU consider is the best programming language - fastest, easiest to learn, most convenient, which has best philosophy? is it C? C++? or C#? Or some Lua? or some assembler - I think that you develop on low hardware level for video-cards, so you deal with all this...

So actually I wonder, if opengl is just about drawing triangles, and objects which consist of them - then why this technology is so "sacred" that I can't easily install it to use it?
I know of some GLut and similar libraries which simplify development, but that also seem not to work very well from first try. Why do you not have OpenGL SDK? Or you do have?
Can you make something like OpenGL SDK for Mac-OS, for Android, for Windows? or you do have it, but then why I can't easily install it and find it? And I mean - it should be updated often, so that I can use latest versions of all technologies, and don't read outdated text, outdated manuals for opengl etc...

Do you have some OpenGL file format similar to .x for directx? What I really need is that I can simply get some free 3d objects from internet, then convert them into opengl 3d object, and then just a code to use that file in my program, and animate that object according to "scenario" which I mentioned above.
program like http://drupal.widgit-online.com/node/add/pagesymbolbody can do what I say - but I want to make something like opengl animation for text, I mean that text can be converted not just into pictures, but into animated 3ds objects. I find that opengl is one of best technologies for that (crossplatform - the only one like this?) so that is why I write to you.

So just more practical question: just advice me some good programs which can work with opengl for mac-os, windows and android, so that I can install that (I want free software only, it is non-profit project now), and best if you give links to download those .exe, .dmg (macos), android packages. And also I'ld like that you advice some free manuals for opengl for all these three platforms. Then I will judge myself what I can do for this idea, and what I can't do using opengl... In short my idea is this because people make computer games, but 3d technologies like opengl can be used for something beneficial like text-to-movie conversion. People watch movies - they spend much money to make movies, but 3d graphics can simplify the process of visualization of scenarios of the movie - instead of alive actor (human), he can be replaced with some 3d opengl object. And there must be some programs to make it possible. Maybe you can advice opengl-based engines? I just don't where else to ask, but directly from opengl...

thank you, please give me some directions. I spend much time searching on internet, reading a lot of opengl-related information, but I think I need authentic information from official site/forum...

thank you in advance

[thokra]

First of all, how is this a "Suggestion for the next release of OpenGL"?

So, any OpenGL editor seem to be something like this, especially if that is some 3d-editor, like 3dsmax, game editor etc.

There is no such thing as an OpenGL editor. What you are talking about are either digital content creation tools, i.e. 3DSMax, or some custom 3D world editor which maps to some functionality of an engine working under the hood.

So, problem is that I need some advice from OpenGL - probably even developers - which programming language is best for my case, which platform is better? I understand that this is not a very big difference, and I think that Mac-OS is better, but then how can I develop there with OpenGL - and for Windows?

Not a big difference? Do you have any concept of operating systems? Anyway, you can write OpenGL code with any language providing bindings. Probably in most cases C or C++ is the language of choice (as OpenGL is implemented as a C-API).

Do you have some OpenGL file format similar to .x for directx?

No.

So actually I wonder, if opengl is just about drawing triangles, and objects which consist of them - then why this technology is so "sacred" that I can't easily install it to use it?

OpenGL is sacred? OpenGL isn't some ancient relic - well, yeah in part it is but that's a different story. You can't install OpenGLand you can't use OpenGL. You can use the mechanisms provided by diverse window system extensions, like GLX or WGL, to dynamically retrieve function pointers to functions residing inside the OpenGL implementation proivided by graphics drivers and pass values from your application to this implementation in order to generate 2D images on the screen.

[..]but 3d technologies like opengl can be used for something beneficial like text-to-movie conversion.

If you show us a proof-of-concept on this one you should get the Nobel prize in awesomeness.

People watch movies - they spend much money to make movies, but 3d graphics can simplify the process of visualization of scenarios of the movie - instead of alive actor (human), he can be replaced with some 3d opengl object.

No, it can't be replaces with some 3d OpenGL object because OpenGL is neither a file format, nor a scene description language nor anything else to describe a virtual world which is to be rendered into a sequence of images forming a movie. OpenGL is a specification which is implemented in graphics drivers by companies developing and selling GPUs. What you want is a digital content creation tool like Blender. And actually, companies spend much money for making digital movies as well because the tool used cost money too (except for Blender) and everything else, like marketing and so on is the same.

To summarize: What you seem to want is to develop a tool which can produce an awesome 3D game or movie from a text file. All that without understanding the bare necessities of graphics programming, graphics APIs and 3D content creation?

[vedaviz]

First of all, how is this a "Suggestion for the next release of OpenGL"?

well, maybe you can make some sdk for ms visual studio (vb, c++, c#)/ mac-os-x?

[thokra]

A suggestion for the next release of OpenGL is something that would be useful enough to be incorporated into the OpenGL specification, not a suggestion for some piece of software layered on OpenGL that would be astronomically difficult to develop. If you want some software to do what you want you'll have to write it yourself.

[vedaviz]

A suggestion for the next release of OpenGL is something that would be useful enough to be incorporated into the OpenGL specification, not a suggestion for some piece of software layered on OpenGL that would be astronomically difficult to develop. If you want some software to do what you want you'll have to write it yourself.

yes, I do something myself. I don't see a big problem in doing what I say.
Tell me, is it a bid problem to make automation of some actions on keyboard, to make a macros? no.
many 3d modelling software do that - Autocad uses lisp for that etc.
so there is command in autocad, and there are menus - also text commands, and there are buttons - 3d images. and there are 3d objects which are produced by combining text in cmdline + menus + buttons + some 3d objects (which are connected to buttons)... So macros would simply do that what user does many times - if in a game where there is no need of perfection like in real modelling for architecture, mechanics etc - some objects like trees, people are placed in random places - than it is not a big problem. but it is nice when they appear automatically... well maybe there are some game engines which can do something like this. But at least I don't know about these...

why astronomically difficult? I'm not telling to create planets in real like creator of thousands of planets in this material world (Brahma) did. It is just 3d modelling, like there are many games, movies, cartoons. No problem - they can represent astronomy, this planet, other planets. That's why movies are limited- we cannot place camera on other planet and see what is there. (But transcendentalists see that with divine vision)... But modelling on computer can do that - to represent something in this world or in another worlds... So that's why I am not so interested in just making movies, but in making 3d objects animation maybe using blender-similalar programs.

[vedaviz]

well, suppose if all those 3d objects library is available to everyone online and everyone can add 3d objects there, and everyone can reuse them - then program can grow and be useful (secondlife is similar but not free - so this is not good). the only is to be done - to get all those things into one program and it should look very nice!

[vedaviz]

Not a big difference? Do you have any concept of operating systems? Anyway, you can write OpenGL code with any language providing bindings. Probably in most cases C or C++ is the language of choice (as OpenGL is implemented as a C-API).

No I mean that if I use Intel-Mac computer, then - it is same hardware - for both mac-os-x, and there can also I run windows. So in sense of hardware - it is same. And opengl is same for mac-os and win. I mean this. I see that MS and Apple are different companies. What about Objective-C for Mac-os? how is it good /better / worse than doing so in C/C++ for mac-os? or it is just a queation of convenience? Say, if I develop in C/C++, it is better if I want cross-platform - for both Mac-OS and Win?

[vedaviz]

If you show us a proof-of-concept on this one you should get the Nobel prize in awesomeness.

I can give you examples of few programs which do what I say.
first program to see -
http://drupal.widgit-online.com/node/add/pagesymbolbody
you write words - and images appear. So opengl 3d objects can be used in this case to make everything look better, and if animation is applied.
another program is - spinnaker story machine -
you type sentences, and animation comes. This program was developed 30 years ago, and it was so small that it can run on just 3MHz computer with little memory like 16KB!
As for Nobel. I'm not vey happy with Noble - because of dynamite he invented. I'm not for noble prize, but somehow I just can do something like this, I have some skills (maybe from past lives), so that's why I want to do this program which can convert text to movie/game. You see there are programs like machine translation software - they analyze texts, and convert into another language. So they analize structure of text, sentences, parts of speech, and so that result can be used to give for some graphics toolkit. If program sees verb, it should run some graphics script to render animation using opengl directx ogre3d etc. if programs finds noun in sentence, it can show 3d-object instead of that word. Just like chat programs change text into picture (smile). So, why not change word (say, rendered with opengl text function) - into opengl 3d object??? those objects are there on internet, even free...
there is similar program - scribblenauts. You type a word - and then - 2d graphical animated character appears and it can do this and that... So I would like that something similar to be in my program. I don't know if I can earn on it, but say if I sell this program for 1 dollar to many mobiles - I can earn 1000$ if 1000 people buy this for 1$ each... Well, I can make it donation-ware, but still I spend time on it, energy, health...

yes, there is program like Alice - it is 3d programming software - there are 3d objects, and one can make them animate, using simple english words like do, go, jump etc... Same is for program scratch... Or say in SecondLife - you can have different scripts applied to person. Those scripts are rendered using same opengl or directx - GPU technology. so ultimately I think it is a good idea to convert text to graphics directly, avoiding spending time for how do you call it - digital content creation tools... If there are already 3d objects on web, and they are reused in different games - millions of them for past 10-20-30 years, then why not unify this process?? so anyone can write a text, and get immediate 3d visualization... movie etc... well, but different companies might work together for this to happen...

"You can use the mechanisms provided by diverse window system extensions, like GLX or WGL"
yes, I want to know more about that. how to install that on windows and macos?

" in order to generate 2D images on the screen."
of course screen is 2d, but 3d-objects are 3d. but I hope there must be many AI (artificial intelligence) algorythms to do that nicely. probably I can find free on internet. I mean also scripts for opengl animation of 3d objects. I would match words with those scripts, so animation will be automatic, and big text will generate many animation frames like in comix or in storyboard (same in cartoons).

"No, it can't be replaces with some 3d OpenGL object because OpenGL is neither a file format, nor a scene description language nor anything else to describe a virtual world which is to be rendered into a sequence of images forming a movie. "
well, it CAN BE DONE, just like in program widgit. Or say in chess... there are different figures - queen king horse. so if there is chess game recorded in chess notation - chess program can load a file with that game and replay it, moving 3d objects, animating them (see 3d chess, and 3d games are even more advanced than chess - strategies are similar to chess, but more complicated using AI). OpenGL uses some functions to draw triangle. So I can give a list of lines to OpenGL which can render those triangles together and that would give out some 3d object - human, animal, tree, bird, fish etc, some other creature, living, conscious, being, demigod, God.
well, then I'll make some addon over opengl to make this possible. I'ld first show text like in console in computer games, - opengl has a function for that. and then would add 3d objects. so when there would be some words nouns like HUMAN, word rendered as text in OpenGL will be changed into 3d object of human. when in text there would be a verb - then it would be applied (according to Part-of-speech tagging, and N-V phrases matching, as done in many machine translators. Vers are most important here as they refer to animation, skeletal animation you call it for living beings?)

"OpenGL is a specification which is implemented in graphics drivers by companies developing and selling GPUs. What you want is a digital content creation tool like Blender. And actually, companies spend much money for making digital movies as well because the tool used cost money too (except for Blender) and everything else, like marketing and so on is the same."
ok, so opengl is a language of 3d video cards like voodoo nvidia ati etc? it is some higher level assembler for graphics???
yes., I'ld try that blender. yes, they spend, but if there are free 3d objects, they are already done, we don't need to spend money AGAIN. You see the difference? Every time a movie created - it has to spend same money for play of same actor. And every time new game is developed - same time and money is payed by customer. but if object is same - why not reuse it again? it can be even free... So just collect 3d-objects and animation scripts, and apply them accroding to analized text.

"To summarize: What you seem to want is to develop a tool which can produce an awesome 3D game or movie from a text file. All that without understanding the bare necessities of graphics programming, graphics APIs and 3D content creation?"
big problem? someone maybe told: it is impossible. but some genius says - no, it CAN be done. He transcendes the limits of material world, temporary technologies, and makes invention. Then everybody see - he DID this.

[thokra]

I can give you examples of few programs which do what I say. first program to see - http://drupal.widgit-online.com/node/add/pagesymbolbody you write words - and images appear. So opengl 3d objects can be used in this case to make everything look better, and if animation is applied. another program is - spinnaker story machine - you type sentences, and animation comes.

Yeah, guess what: Those assets, i.e. images, animated or still, are not generated but seem to be created manually. The mapping between a word and an image is trivial and animation and interaction in the story machine are obviously predefined as well. The thing is you didn't ask for the normal way of doing thing, i.e. creating stuff and then working with it, you wanted to provide a description of something in textual form and have it somehow transform into a 3D game or movie. For that, you'll either have to procedurally generate the virtual world you want to render and/or interact with or you'll have some predefined assets, i.e. models and texture etc., and some pretty extensive logic handling rendering(static and dynamic, i.e. animations), user interaction, collisions and sound as the barest minimum. For rendered movies you'll need pretty much the same except for the interactions part. And how does your code come along? You'll need a code generator which is able to capture all the concepts of a modern game and replicate them as a working program. If you can do that in a man's lifetime - please go ahead and let it show. I'd love to play that game.

In my opinion you have a severe misunderstanding of how computer games or computer animated movies are done - there's a reason something like the spinnaker story machine didn't survive.

[vedaviz]

Yeah, guess what: Those assets, i.e. images, animated or still, are not generated but seem to be created manually. The mapping between a word and an image is trivial and animation and interaction in the story machine are obviously predefined as well. The thing is you didn't ask for the normal way of doing thing, i.e. creating stuff and then working with it, you wanted to provide a description of something in textual form and have it somehow transform into a 3D game or movie.


For that, you'll either have to procedurally generate the virtual world you want to render and/or interact with or you'll have some predefined assets, i.e. models and texture etc., and some pretty extensive logic handling rendering(static and dynamic, i.e. animations), user interaction, collisions and sound as the barest minimum. For rendered movies you'll need pretty much the same except for the interactions part. And how does your code come along? You'll need a code generator which is able to capture all the concepts of a modern game and replicate them as a working program. If you can do that in a man's lifetime - please go ahead and let it show. I'd love to play that game.

In my opinion you have a severe misunderstanding of how computer games or computer animated movies are done - there's a reason something like the spinnaker story machine didn't survive.

well, I know how to do 3d object in any 3d software. I know this. And I also know some games from inside - I have seen even some old games with available toolkits - like those for doom, quake etc. They just have some 3d models-objects, level editors. The hardest thing there is computer "artificial intelligence", but see - even AI is already there in comp games - computer can do something what he is asked to - and characters can do this or that, computer can play chess and even win sometimes. As for spinnaker story machine - yes, of course it is very small program, - just some 15-20 nouns, and some 15 verbs, half of them are duplicates, only two prepositions. But pronouns do work, articles are there, numerals work to produce plural, and verbs do animation actually. So isn't that wonderful???! As for
"In my opinion you have a severe misunderstanding of how computer games or computer animated movies are done - there's a reason something like the spinnaker story machine didn't survive."
well, I can get a camera and make own video. any problem? video cameras are available. anyone can make a movie - that's youtube. and anyone can make a game - hundreds of game constructors are there, game engines etc. But as I learned progrminng, even assembler (yes, I know Iczelion's manuals, masm32 - macro assembler etc), I am not very satisified with simple game creators. And I want Opengl and computer graphics animation to be used for something more beneficial like edutainment at least - play game - but learn at same time. So for this reason I like more - logic games, or some others which make one think and not just "killing" games etc. I realize that this idea is about creativity, that one who makes a movie or game - he puts there "a soul" or "a heart", so thus it is more or less humane, alive, and not just like a "dead machine". And I do not want in this way to stop one from thinking while reading any text. But people watch movies - they like it more. Even Alice from wonderland said - "a book without pictures is not interesting"... So if I can give into a program at least some simple text like fairy tale for children etc - this is a good material for creating 3d scene or game or cartoon movie comix etc... well, I'll do something - then I'll show you.

but thank you...

"Yeah, guess what: Those assets, i.e. images, animated or still, are not generated but seem to be created manually. The mapping between a word and an image is trivial and animation and interaction in the story machine are obviously predefined as well. The thing is you didn't ask for the normal way of doing thing, i.e. creating stuff and then working with it, you wanted to provide a description of something in textual form and have it somehow transform into a 3D game or movie. "
yes, of course I understand that all data in computer can appear there only when people do something - they input some 101010 which are either animation code (some commands of CPU in assembler -like jz, jnz - for logic, some arithmetic commands etc) - or they are different data. I guess GPU also does something very similar to this. Yes, we input data into computers, and they can be either true or not, something in a game or movie can be a myth, truth or not, 0 or 1, but noone cares. that is not important for computer - he I mean it just stores information and does what it is asked to do.

"The mapping between a word and an image is trivial and animation and interaction in the story machine are obviously predefined as well. "
yes and no - both. On one side - it is easy to match a word with a picture for me - in some GDI+ (I use creategraphics, and then commands to DrawImage from some file or from imagelist). But I do not know how to do same in OpenGL, so thus I want to ask that. I just need some command to load some 3d object using one command line, so that 3d object appear on screen. And one line to apply some 3d animation to loaded 3d object - so that will correspond to verb in text. I know this is close to Artificial intelligence... But I feel I can do this. (well, I leanr philosophy, logic, holy scriptures and faith in God gives me inspiration to make this "automatic text-to-game/movie" program, or knowledge-visualization program. I call it Veda Viz, because I want to visualize something from Vedas more than from other books, but this is not very important on this forum I think, because you are interested in Aristotle and his logic, I mean he founded this school which created science technology unlike Plato Sokrates who are more transcendentalists. Well it is history of philosophy, another question)...

I want to use some database like MySQL to store there all opengl 3d objects, which I can load and show on screen. So in my program can be not just 20+15 nouns/verbs like in spinnaker story machine, but probably thousands or even 10 000 nouns|3d objects and scripts for animation. Does OpenGL has any database so I can use it instead of ImageList which I use in Visual Studio (GDI+)? Of course it can provide even pictures for animation - they are like "frames" say there can be frames for different views. But these are raster, and opengl can show in 3d, from different camera views. So I don't want to use just 2d raster pictures, if 3d objects are available.

"you wanted to provide a description of something in textual form and have it somehow transform into a 3D game or movie. "
I understand that natural language and programming languages are different, but it is only advantage - in our case we can just simplify complicated human language text into simplified text and convert into computer commands. Just like robots with AI - they are asked to do this or that - and they do it - even move. But this is easier to just draw this on screen without need to make a robot - just show those computer character robots etc on screen.

"models and texture etc., and some pretty extensive logic handling rendering(static and dynamic, i.e. animations), user interaction, collisions and sound as the barest minimum. For rendered movies you'll need pretty much the same except for the interactions part. And how does your code come along? You'll need a code generator which is able to capture all the concepts of a modern game and replicate them as a working program. If you can do that in a man's lifetime - please go ahead and let it show. I'd love to play that game."

yes, models, textures - easily - I just recently downloaded for free a program daz3d - it is not even pirated (and my Visual Studio Express is also legal and windows etc, but it is another question but I want to prove that I'm also doing everything legally and not stealing). So I could convert that into directx, and if I can just open .x file in Visual Studio - that will look nice. The hard work - is to get all those 3d objects from internet - get those which are free - find then, not movies on youtube. and those object from different file formats are to be converted into one file format which opengl can open. I see that opengl has no "editor", and no ".x" alternative format. but I find that it can use some .c , .cpp files, and they can generate what to do - and finally to show 3d objects.

"sound as the barest minimum.", no I don't plan to include there much keyboard/mouse interaction - it should just produce something like movie which I can just see that's all (remember movie matrix??? you can load any program into brain... though it may sound dangerous, but I solved this ethics problem - we will not put "plugs" into brains :-) )... and as for sound. that is also not a primary thing for this program. It may even not produce any sounds/music, but only show animated graphics.

"If you can do that in a man's lifetime - please go ahead and let it show. I'd love to play that game.""
yes, I can give you different links. But anyway, most important I tell you. If you like you can do it yourself, if you understand. But as I see nobody do this - so "the best is to do it yourself"... but I want copyright to be on side of vedaviz(c) that's all. Maybe it can even be opensource, but thus - donationware. because now I'm not earning on it.

" please go ahead and let it show. I'd love to play that game."
yes, I want to this in Visual Studio + OpenGL first. Or with Xcode with opengles for ipad iphone. it would be much nicer than widgit or spinnaker story machine. I'ld take best of all these technologies and put them into one. It is not very new idea - even chinese hieroglyphs also have same idea - some hyeroglyphs look very close to what they represent... so there are even movies where hyieroglyphs become animated and go alive. (well, why I studied chinese at school? maybe to make this program??)
..

but my thought is that - either I do it good - in opengl directx 3d, or don't do it all and be satisfied with that what others did (widgit, story machine etc)... but I want to do my best to do something better. I 'm sure I can solve problems with analyzing text (machine translation is now quite advanced etc), but I just want to solve 3d-graphics part.