"We want decent GPU/OpenGL Mac OS X support" initiative

[Adam Strzelecki]

Please join my initiative to show Apple we want better OpenGL support on Mac. Please find the details at: http://www.facebook.com/WeWantDecentOSXOpenGL it includes description how and where to post feedback to Apple.

If you agree with the initiative please Like the page and what's better post your opinion on the timeline and tell your friends using Mac about it.

I think this is only way to convince Apple to start improving OpenGL on Mac to match current NVIDIA and AMD implementations on Windows and Linux.

[menzel]

I'm not sure if Apple will listen to a Facebookpage, but 'likeing' it might do no harm if you are on facebook (I'm not). Alternatively to beg for Apple to deliver better drivers, letting Apple supply AMD/NVidia/Intel with there own 3rd party drivers would be great! These are the guys who know there chips best and might also provide us with vendor specific extensions on MacOS X.

If you want to do more then clicking on 'like', register for free as a Mac developer and file a bug report / feature request here: https://bugreport.apple.com/ . The more people file the same request, the sooner Apple will listen (yes, that also applies to bugs: everyone with that problem should file a report, this info comes from Apple employees in there forums).

10.8 doesn't seem to get anything beyond 3.2 even tho the MacMini from last year is the only Mac you can buy with a not-OpenGL 4 capable GPU....

[Janika]

Generally interesting idea. But I'm not really sure if Mac needs the more capable most recent OpenGL features. The current version serves its purpose pretty well on Mac.

[menzel]

Generally interesting idea. But I'm not really sure if Mac needs the more capable most recent OpenGL features. The current version serves its purpose pretty well on Mac.

In which sense exactly does OpenGL on the Mac serve a different purpose than on Windows or Linux?

[Janika]

In which sense exactly does OpenGL on the Mac serve a different purpose than on Windows or Linux?

Desktop GUI acceleration, video acceleration, available games for Apple, 2D painting, and some CADs? Think same case as in Windows/Linux? Not really. Mac consumers are different than PC consumers in a sense that Mac has less developers who are interested in using the most recent GL versions, compared to PC, which has the majority of developers.

[menzel]

Janika, if you follow the discussions of Mac developers (e.g. in Apples forums) you will see that there are a lot of developers interested in better OpenGL support (heck, this thread and a facebook page was initiated by one!), but Apple does simply not deliver!
Games for Apple use OpenGL, games for Windows mostly Direct3D - we have better OpenGL support on Windows anyway!
Why are the consumers different when the developers are fewer? Your argumentation doesn't make any sense!

Also: You can't argue that we don't need hi-end OpenGL on Macs because there are no hi-end games for the Mac when we simply can't have hi-end games until we get hi-end OpenGL.

The Mac is a slowly growing market, the users have money (hey, the machines are pricy) and the app store delivers a DRM-based shop out of the box. This could be an attactive market.

[malexander]

Mac has less developers who are interested in using the most recent GL versions

If they were interested in recent GL versions, they wouldn't be Mac developers

Beyond just newer features, there are also performance issues and a lot more headaches with bugs. The 'line in the sand' that Apple has drawn between legacy and modern APIs is also in contrast with drivers on Windows and Linux that support the compatibility profile, creating some cross platform issues for us.

Has anyone seen if there are new GL extensions to the GL 3.2 core driver in 10.8? Are the drivers almost 3.3 or 4.0, but with a few missing features?

[Janika]

Why are the consumers different when the developers are fewer? Your argumentation doesn't make any sense!

It does make a lot of sense. When the consumers are different then PCs, developers have very little interest in investing time on software that will have no market. They buy a system that comes with all what they need, and I'm talking in general. As already mentioned, they are "pricy." It's a closed platform, and in a good way.

Also: You can't argue that we don't need hi-end OpenGL on Macs because there are no hi-end games for the Mac when we simply can't have hi-end games until we get hi-end OpenGL.

It's not only OpenGL that makes games or any high-end software. Did we forget the development tools issue? Yes it's an issue when a developer has to deal with a not so tasty language like Objective-C.

When Mac goes with the standard and becomes a more open platform, then there will be the need to upgrade their GL support. Until then, good luck!

[menzel]

I still can't find a reason in your posts why the Mac users should be different.
BTW: You don't have to use ObjC, expecially OpenGL and game related programming can be done in nearly pure C++ (or whatever language you like).

Bottom line: I don't see a single argument why MacOS has different OpenGL related needs than Windows or Linux. I only see developers who desperatly want an update...

[Janika]

Bottom line: I don't see a single argument why MacOS has different OpenGL related needs than Windows or Linux.

Market not pushing enough.

I only see developers who desperatly want an update...

To develop what? We still have not seen even GL 3.x on Windows in action yet. Drivers are there but where are the applications?