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Thread: Enforce speeds and focus on 2D! and More

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  1. #1
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    Enforce speeds and focus on 2D! and More

    Enforce certain speed standards for rendering/memory transferring and ensure all required functionality is in the core and ensure the graphics card arent permitted to make high-pitch noises. (ive noticed with some high-end games like starcraft 2 in non-game/loading or title mode)

    Before i go any further i should point out whilst other opensource projects may be able to achieve these on there own, it takes a lot more knowledge to use them and then they cannot work in unison with OpenGL. (depending on which paragraph below you look at)

    Maths - write lots upon lots of maths, OpenGL should be able to implement the best standard OpenCMath (Computer Math) or whatever, and should challenge other peoples work if it conflicts with the Open Standard Ie. It doesn't allow you to expand into that area. - Mainly referring to mouse picking which i cannot do.

    A proper 2D standard. For extremely fast rendering of pixmaps.

    Ive been trying to utilise framebuffers on my computer and PBO's and whatnot to get 2D to work but meh it just doesnt want to work, OpenGL is supposed to be a graphics library, what use is it if its incomplete? (Hardly any fast 2D facility's and as just stated nothing direct, atm im using Rectangles and Billboards) - it might be my fault though since i havent initialised opengl with glew on linux (i cant remember for windows i think it is, even though it still doesnt work) - i dont like glew

    PNG/JPEG/TarGa/etc - all image file loaders and advanced options for tiled/animations to give OpenGL the most optimal format for processing the image data (instead of relying on other people to just repeat implemention of this). Also to this stop denying non-professionals, since OpenGL biggest arena or future arena wont be windows! Allow people to make programs and not crap.

    Console mode standards. Console mode as in being able to access multiple lines and where the current user is, could become extremely useful esp. if hardware was wired into this. Or a type of OS, which would bring up a point of the greatness of MS-DOS, because of the simple fact that i hate wasting resources on additional programs when im in-game and it would make it harder for people to hack into computers and all with access to only certain stuff. (launch from windows or linux into Open-DOS or Gaming-DOS and no im not referring to single thread etc, hows OpenCL doing)

    More Sourcecode error gathering functionality and perhaps another project for ensuring correct opengl implemention in sourcecode (sourcecode parser) and dont allow developers to wreck there machines (through the parser)

    Far easier and more cross-platform, even if its not native to OpenGL, perhaps a new way to access graphics? without having to rely on xlib or windows to let you into the system? The Open-DOS option sounds champion, that way you could keep it as it is aswell.

    Cut out computer memory (for graphics) so that games have a much faster load-up time. Think about a by-pass system? if everything has to go through a CPU then you could either utilise the GPU or a secondary CPU for Audio/Video streaming directly into Video memory and not from computer memory.

    Lay some foundation for new developers, my game machine - www.fobbix.com/projects/foxy_game_machine.php has a class called StoreBuffer thats very easy for rendering with shaders. Obv i have how to get into fullscreen mode on linux, and a few other quirks there, just as long as you dont try and release it all together or within a collective space then im more than happy for people to reuse parts of my game machine for free.

    Anyway just a few thoughts, would make OpenGL far better than DirectX (even though for the most part it'll just be bringing the additionals up to the standard of DirectX and obv surpass them) Ive always liked the simple nature of OpenGL but at the moment its an false economy.

    OpenGL can become the #1 standard, at the moment on linux its the ONLY standard. If i was only interested in windows i would be using DirectX.

    Again thanks for your time.

  2. #2
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    This is probably the most pointless suggestion list I've ever seen on this forum

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by aqnuep View Post
    This is probably the most pointless suggestion list I've ever seen on this forum
    is it pointless to actually want OpenGL to work properly? and be able to do anything in real-time with graphics? maybe im going too far with another dedicated OS, HERE, but it would be loads better and as for loading up games personally i hate waiting a few mins on fully-featured games to play so if theres a way to get rid of that it would be great. (memory copying takes its time, lots of time)

  4. #4
    Super Moderator OpenGL Lord
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    Pointless as in "I do not see your point".
    All your suggestions are high confined to a 2D genre, and has nothing to do with GL.
    "memory copying takes its time, lots of time" in fact no. In-memory plain copy is several GB per second. Time taken depends on disk I/O, decompression, GPU tiling of textures, etc.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fobbix View Post
    Enforce certain speed standards for rendering/memory transferring and ensure all required functionality is in the core
    This one is actually interesting.
    Unfortunately, khronos struggles to provide functional conformance tests, so performance tests most likely wont happen in forseeable future.

  6. #6
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    I see the use of functional conformance tests but performance test? Seriously? Demands on how the hardware works (noise etc.) and how fast it is should not be part of a API spec...

  7. #7
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    Why? The only reson for conformance tests is to have high quality implementations of GL. Performance of the driver is also a contributing factor of its quality.

  8. #8
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    Yes, but no API specification should include any specific performance requirements.
    1. It's difficult to specify performance requirements.
    2. It would disallow certain IHVs from implementing the GL.
    3. It would disallow software implementations of the GL.
    4. D3D does not have it either.
    Disclaimer: This is my personal profile. Whatever I write here is my personal opinion and none of my statements or speculations are anyhow related to my employer and as such should not be treated as accurate or valid and in no case should those be considered to represent the opinions of my employer.
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  9. #9
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    You assume that such tests/requirements will be absolute, which doesnt have to be true.
    1. Yes its difficult, thats one of the reasons to not do it (at least before other problems arent solved, and it looks like there is a lot of time until then).
    2. Not really, i imagine this could be done by vendors declaring upfront their performance targets. Just like they do with GL version supported.
    3. Yes, thats very unfortunate, but what is practical about software implementation of GL? Mesa can run trivial shaders on teapot in small window, but thats about it. No one will play Doom3 on software GL renderer.
    4. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr.../gg463054.aspx

    Microsoft Windows XP Display Driver Model (XPDM) drivers cannot get a Windows logo.

    Logo Area Requirement
    Basic Video driver WDDM driver
    Basic Color depth 32 BPP
    Basic GPU generation DirectX v9 or later
    Premium Memory allocated for graphics
    • 64 MB at 1024x768 native resolution
    • 128 MB at 1024x768+ native resolution
    • 256 MB at 1600x1200+ native resolution
    Premium Texture update bandwidth 2 GB/second
    Premium Polygon counts ~1.5 triangles/second
    1.5 triangles/second probably isnt that hard to reach , but thats not the point here. Dont know if this all there is in WLK either.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator OpenGL Guru
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    Quote Originally Posted by fobbix View Post
    Enforce certain speed standards for rendering/memory transferring and ensure all required functionality is in the core and ensure the graphics card arent permitted to make high-pitch noises. (ive noticed with some high-end games like starcraft 2 in non-game/loading or title mode)
    So you want OpenGL to have fast memory, more memory and to not make noise? And that will make OpenGL #1 compared to DirectX?

    I think you are confusing API with hardware.

    Please read "What is OpenGL" in the FAQ section :
    http://www.opengl.org/wiki/FAQ#What_is_OpenGL.3F
    ------------------------------
    Sig: http://glhlib.sourceforge.net
    an open source GLU replacement library. Much more modern than GLU.
    float matrix[16], inverse_matrix[16];
    glhLoadIdentityf2(matrix);
    glhTranslatef2(matrix, 0.0, 0.0, 5.0);
    glhRotateAboutXf2(matrix, angleInRadians);
    glhScalef2(matrix, 1.0, 1.0, -1.0);
    glhQuickInvertMatrixf2(matrix, inverse_matrix);
    glUniformMatrix4fv(uniformLocation1, 1, FALSE, matrix);
    glUniformMatrix4fv(uniformLocation2, 1, FALSE, inverse_matrix);

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