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Thread: Toward Version 4.3

  1. #21
    Junior Member Regular Contributor
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    But is not the case that CAD developers are already moving to Direct3D?

  2. #22
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    Just to add something.

    I looked at the way context creation is done.

    The application should be able to
    a) get major, minor and core or compatibility profile (this is done and good, please make this kind of a thing consistent across all khronos api's so you only have to develop it once.)
    b) when an application wants to exist let it present a version and profile to the driver.
    The driver then decides to execute it or gives an error with does not have <needed version> for application: <application name>.

    (There seems to be inconsistencies between the GL and GL ES about this.
    Also I'm not sure if I read correctly
    but please allow for a general api mechanism where the application can just do a call with the version and profile it wants.)
    This can be useful for all the api's, dealing with changing specifications.
    Making a general thing across all khronos api's benefits from only having to develop it once.

    old applications will be recognizable by new drivers because of the calls.
    New applications can just work on new drivers since the drivers can have a very good idea of what is asked. You can theoretically even break the api constantly and still have old and new applications running on new drivers without problems related to compatibility.
    (Provided that the driver writers can keep up implementing everything.)
    No danger for legacy + able to change everything without problems related to the way changing something could mess up expectations between applications and drivers.

  3. #23
    Senior Member OpenGL Pro
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    Sampler objects are also semi-DSA/bindless, but they miss one important piece of functionality. You can't bind a texture to GL_TEXTURE0 then sample it once with clamp/linear and a second time with wrap/point, for example. This can be very useful for encoding complex functions in textures, the hardware is capable of doing it (and has been since at latest 2002 or thereabouts), but GL doesn't expose that capability so far as I can see - separation of textures from samplers remains incomplete (see further discussion point 4 at http://www.opengl.org/registry/specs...er_objects.txt).

    There's no reason why GL 4.3 (or 5.0 with 4.3 being the "expose as much functionality..." version) can't make a clean break. Freeze the spec at 4.2 for existing programs, build a new spec that makes a complete break with the legacy cruft, let those who have to maintain apps for older versions continue with the older spec, let those who want to move forward use the newer. Yes, hardware vendors will need to maintain 2 sets of GL drivers as a result, but is that really any worse than the current scenario where both newer stuff and ancient crap must be maintained in a single driver (and all the pain and suffering that comes from that)? How sustainable is the current situation? Something has to break, the only question is what is going to break first.

  4. #24
    Super Moderator OpenGL Guru
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janika View Post
    But is not the case that CAD developers are already moving to Direct3D?
    Probably. I don't know.

    What surprises me is that they (CAD) care about backwards compatibility in GL 3.0, 3.1, 3.3, 4.0, 4.1 and future versions.
    It seems to me that the features added are more usable in gaming situations rather then CAD.
    That said, even most games don't utilize all that functionality.

    Which CAD program uses geometry shaders or tesselation shaders or sampler objects or floating point formats for textures and FBO?

    So, overall, it doesn't make sense.
    The industry is run by FUD = Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.
    Whenever a clean break was mentioned, people panick that old CAD programs and games would not run anymore.

    Direct3D is a whole other world. It is a changing API. If CAD people want to move to it....I consider that moronic because it is a changing API. Something that they don't like.
    ------------------------------
    Sig: http://glhlib.sourceforge.net
    an open source GLU replacement library. Much more modern than GLU.
    float matrix[16], inverse_matrix[16];
    glhLoadIdentityf2(matrix);
    glhTranslatef2(matrix, 0.0, 0.0, 5.0);
    glhRotateAboutXf2(matrix, angleInRadians);
    glhScalef2(matrix, 1.0, 1.0, -1.0);
    glhQuickInvertMatrixf2(matrix, inverse_matrix);
    glUniformMatrix4fv(uniformLocation1, 1, FALSE, matrix);
    glUniformMatrix4fv(uniformLocation2, 1, FALSE, inverse_matrix);

  5. #25
    Senior Member OpenGL Guru
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    There's no reason why GL 4.3 (or 5.0 with 4.3 being the "expose as much functionality..." version) can't make a clean break.
    It would be for the same reason that 4.2 couldn't make a clean break. That 4.1 couldn't make a clean break. That 4.0 couldn't make a clean break. That ... that 3.0 couldn't make a clean break.

    The fact that us people on a forum don't see the reason doesn't mean the reason doesn't exist. And even if it doesn't exist, that also doesn't mean it's going to happen.

    Really guys, don't get your hopes up.

  6. #26

  7. #27
    Super Moderator OpenGL Guru
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    Thanks. The whole thing is funny but specially this part

    OpenGL uses an older technology called sphere maps for reflections, which means you use the image of
    your environment taken from the perspective of a perfectly reflecting sphere.
    Direct3D uses a newer technology called cube maps for reflections which means that you supply six
    textures as the faces of a cube surrounding your model. Direct3D does the reflection computations using
    the cube.
    and that was from 2007, so GL 2.1 was already around. LOL.
    ------------------------------
    Sig: http://glhlib.sourceforge.net
    an open source GLU replacement library. Much more modern than GLU.
    float matrix[16], inverse_matrix[16];
    glhLoadIdentityf2(matrix);
    glhTranslatef2(matrix, 0.0, 0.0, 5.0);
    glhRotateAboutXf2(matrix, angleInRadians);
    glhScalef2(matrix, 1.0, 1.0, -1.0);
    glhQuickInvertMatrixf2(matrix, inverse_matrix);
    glUniformMatrix4fv(uniformLocation1, 1, FALSE, matrix);
    glUniformMatrix4fv(uniformLocation2, 1, FALSE, inverse_matrix);

  8. #28
    Senior Member OpenGL Pro
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    In spite of the fact that we do not use any new fancy OpenGL extensions and
    use OpenGL almost on the level of 1997 graphics HW technology, we routinely encounter OpenGL
    graphics drivers that do not work correctly and as a result[..]
    You don't even need to read past the first page to get stunned by massive amounts of irony. Of course, it's always better and easier to write and maintain more than 40 workarounds for crap that most likely has been redeemed by later GL revisions...

    I really, really hope that the team at Autodesk developing the product is the only one with that policy. Otherwise I'd have to find a new desk to compensate for the hole I smashed into it with my head.

  9. #29
    Junior Member Regular Contributor
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    The next has to be GL 5 and must be a clean break from all previous versions. And as mentioned, if CAD dady is favoring D3D, then why bother with backward compatibility profiles, and as someone mentioned, maintaining too much in a single driver???!!! Games use D3D already and D3D is not stable either. So again why bother?

  10. #30
    Member Regular Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janika View Post
    The next has to be GL 5 and must be a clean break from all previous versions.
    I predict, that we will hear a lot more 'Version N+1 has to be a clean break' demands before there will acually be a clean break (if ever)...

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