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Thread: OpenGL 3 Updates

  1. #991
    Junior Member Regular Contributor CatDog's Avatar
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    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Has bullshittin' about C-whatever something to do with OpenGL?

    This thread was an interesting read for the last ten pages or so. Please keep it up that way.

    I've got some questions, because this GPGPU-thing disturbs me.
    Graphics cards are no longer 'graphics cards'. They're extra computers added into a slot on your motherboard.
    Is this the reason for GPGPU? If true, my feeling is, that the new flexibility of current graphics cards is heavly misused to act like extra computers. Just because it can be done.

    Isn't "GPGPU" a contradiction in terms, btw? Doing general purpose stuff on a graphics programming unit sounds a little bit odd, doesn't it? I thought, the (only?) advantage of GPUs over CPUs is their ability to process data in a highly parallelized fashion. Doesn't this mean, their practical use is restricted to algorithms, that can be parallelized? But that isn't exactly what I would call general purpose. (?)

    So, I'd prefer OpenGL to be what its name suggests: a graphics library. Special purpose! In case I want to misuse the GPU for other tasks, there should be a separate API.

    CatDog

  2. #992
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    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Zengar
    Well, assembly can be called an "API" in a very basic way. The instructions are not executed directly with most CPUs, but are broken down in more primitive commands. The x86 architecture can be seen as an "API", with new instructions being "extensions". But this is a bit absurd, from my point of view. An API is way more abstract then that.
    No, no it really can't be called an API;

    API
    An application programming interface (API) is a set of declarations of the functions (or procedures) that an operating system, library or service provides to support requests made by computer programs
    Programming Language
    A programming language is an artificial language that can be used to control the behavior of a machine, particularly a computer.[1] Programming languages are defined by syntactic and semantic rules which describe their structure and meaning respectively. Many programming languages have some form of written specification of their syntax and semantics; some are defined only by an official implementation.
    Please note how they are totally different things and how the latter applies to languages (assembly, C, C++, C#, Java etc) and the former doesn't.

  3. #993
    Advanced Member Frequent Contributor Mars_999's Avatar
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    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Ok back on track, and OpenGL should stay a graphics library IMO, and if they want GPGPU stuff make a add on library that integrates to GL, and call it OpenGPGPU or something. That way they can be used separately or together. BTW 100 pages of bickering!!! Keep it rolling. ;P

  4. #994
    Senior Member OpenGL Guru zed's Avatar
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    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Is this the reason for GPGPU? If true, my feeling is, that the new flexibility of current graphics cards is heavly misused to act like extra computers. Just because it can be done.
    not 'just because it can be done' (though i admit there is prolly some programmer wankery in there) but because it can offer performance an order or 2 or even 3 greater in magnitude than is available on a cpu

    look at cell (used in the ps3)
    its now used in the fastest computer in the world
    http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...he_top500.html
    btw amazing the growth, 15years ago the fastest 500 computers combined total were 0.1% of the speed of todays single fastest computer!!

    btw 1 petraflop had to write out to get an idea 1,000,000,000,000,000

    its obvious that the lines betwenn gpu+cpu are blurred + becoming moreso each year (like the cell), its very possible that the next families from nvidia/amd will be celllike hybrids (nvidia must be keen of taking a chuck of the cpu dollars as its a far larger market than gpus)

    i can take a C program from 40 years ago, compile it + run it on my machine + send that exe to anyone with a pc + they can run it also.
    now with graphics cards each generation more has become available, requiring the programmer to rewrite there programs which is a PITA.
    wouldnt it be great to have a graphics language (C++ choosen as an example) that is gonna last for decades.
    with C++ i can use boost or STL libraries for funcs that others have written (using boost or STL normally doesnt incur much of a performance penalty).
    replace C++/boost with opengl-graphics-language/opengl3.0


    well 51 days till siggraph

  5. #995
    Senior Member OpenGL Guru knackered's Avatar
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    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    ....and another thing.....why oh why do people say Tannoy when they mean Public Address System? For heavens sake, Tannoy is a brand name. Same goes for Hoovers.

    Oh look, a squirrel.

  6. #996
    Advanced Member Frequent Contributor cass's Avatar
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    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates


    We say "PA system" and "vacuum cleaner" in the US.
    Cass Everitt -- cass@xyzw.us

  7. #997
    Advanced Member Frequent Contributor Mars_999's Avatar
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    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by cass
    We say "PA system" and "vacuum cleaner" in the US.
    LOL, I personally like my Kirby, built like a tank!

  8. #998
    Intern Newbie Carl Jokl's Avatar
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    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    It is clear that OpenGL 3.0 even if it finally arrives this summer with be over a year behind schedule. Can anyone summise why this is without me having to dig through all 100 pages of ranting?

    I must say that it is all good and well putting down Microsoft (and I am not a Microsoft fan) and I could imagine many like Open GL because there isn't the Microsoft tie in as is the case with Direct X. The problem is that when the non Microsoft alternative systems either screw up or are massively behind schedule or slow to make progress it doesn't help in promoting them.

    As regards the GPGPU. That is a bit of a contradition in terms at least as far as naming goes. I think it would be better called a HPPU (Highly Parallelised Processing Unit or something like that spelled correctly).

    I could see from a technical standpoint potential advantages of intergrating GPU cores together with CPU cores on a single die. It seems after all that it is usually the graphics bus which demands the highest bandwidth from the CPU anyway except maybe in servers. The problem with that is more business related than technical. Graphics cards allow mixing and matching of different CPU and GPU vendors which would not be possible with everything intergrated on one chip.
    Check out my dimensions, length, width and for a limited time only..depth!

  9. #999
    Senior Member OpenGL Pro Zengar's Avatar
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    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Jokl
    It is clear that OpenGL 3.0 even if it finally arrives this summer with be over a year behind schedule. Can anyone summise why this is without me having to dig through all 100 pages of ranting?
    No reason. Well, there must be one, but they don't tell us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Jokl
    As regards the GPGPU. That is a bit of a contradition in terms at least as far as naming goes. I think it would be better called a HPPU (Highly Parallelised Processing Unit or something like that spelled correctly).
    There is already that term "stream processor", which is pretty nice IMHO.

  10. #1000
    Senior Member OpenGL Guru zed's Avatar
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    Re: OpenGL 3 Updates

    ive just been out for a run + im well + truly, knackered
    u talking about the suck or blow variety?
    well off to bed, another exciting day awaits tommorrow (they all are when youre unemployed)

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