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View Full Version : Call for OpenGL Experts to act as OpenGL Wiki editors



Khronos WebMaster
02-28-2006, 09:34 AM
We are beginning a new OpenGL Wiki to replace and advance the current OpenGL Getting Started and Technical FAQs. By involving the OpenGL developer community, we hope to keep the Wiki FAQ more up-to-date and more comprehensive than we could with the current static FAQ.

A basic framework has been started by Tom Nuydens (Delphi3d.net), and is now awaiting experts to fill in the framework holes and add in the content. If you are interested, send an email to webmaster (at) OpenGL (dot) org.

To help us select the best set of experts, we are requiring that contributors be frequent contributors to the message boards or members of an ARB member company. So, in your email, be sure to include your qualifications, any particular areas of OpenGL expertise, your message board handle, your familiarity with editing in MediaWiki, and anything else that is relevant.

selwakad
02-28-2006, 09:42 AM
This is an excellent Idea. :)

glDesktop
03-16-2006, 06:47 PM
An brilliant idea, but I don't see much happening, am I missing something obvious.

Some links would be helpful here.

zero0w
03-17-2006, 11:18 PM
Yes, and I recommend the MediaWiki engine.

After all, many people are getting used to Wikipedia and it is good for users of other languages as MediaWiki handles Unicode well.

Khronos WebMaster
03-19-2006, 06:13 PM
The new wiki is availalable for viewing on the new site. People who want to contribute should email webmaster at opengl dot org

errantkid
03-20-2006, 06:12 PM
Isn't the conditions for becoming an editor a little strict? After all, not all "OpenGL experts" frequent the OpenGl.org forums. In fact, I doubt that very many do... I suppose it's to prevent vandalism, but how much danger is there really? Maybe simply provide more restricted access to the sensitive areas?

Final point: Technical FAQ sounds a little too much like a plain FAQ. I would personally love to have tutorials, OpenGl reference documentation etc on the wiki.

Other than that, it's a really great idea! Thanks a lot!

sqrt[-1]
03-21-2006, 03:07 AM
Is it just me, or are other people getting DB errors when they try to add new pages to the wiki?

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "SearchMySQL4::update". MySQL returned error "1016: Can't open file: 'mw_searchindex.MYI' (errno: 145) (localhost)".

V-man
03-28-2006, 07:56 AM
Dorbie has had the same problem.
See "due to a DB error"
http://www.opengl.org/wiki/index.php/Shading_languages

I would like to add that
http://www.opengl.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_started

needs to be developed further. That thing about downloading opengl95.exe should be removed or asy that it's obsolete.
There should be mention of extension loading libraries, a short code about how to use them.

evanGLizr
04-05-2006, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Metro:

To help us select the best set of experts, we are requiring that contributors be frequent contributors to the message boards or members of an ARB member company. So, in your email, be sure to include your qualifications, any particular areas of OpenGL expertise, your message board handle, your familiarity with editing in MediaWiki, and anything else that is relevant. All this is good, but - and please take this as constructive criticism - why doesn't the OpenGL wiki have anonymous or free login editing like Wikipedia?

I don't think that having an "elitist" wiki where you have to send references & prove that you are an expert to be able to edit articles makes the wiki any good.

Frankly, I myself can't be bothered registering and sending my "references" or "qualifications" by email to someone I don't know just to be able to write to someone elses wiki things that I already know, I can already write whatever I want in my blog.

Also, you don't need to be an expert to correct formatting or obvious typos.

I think the wiki would benefit greatly from allowing anonymous editing or open log-in (like opengl.org forums). Vandalism can be corrected with a click by any "expert", and if doesn't work you can always lock pages, ban IPs, etc. The same goes for misinformation.
I don't think being pro-active against vandalism and misinformation is the right approach in a wiki.

Had wikipedia taken such a closed approach, it would be nowhere where it's now.

jtipton
04-28-2006, 06:55 PM
It doesn't take hardly any time to get a Wiki login. It is nice to know that the writers will be experts in the field. The content is more likely to be trusted and respected.

Brolingstanz
04-29-2006, 07:20 PM
I have to agree with Evanglizr. Cream tends to rise to the top in public endeavors, like open-source operating systems and wikis. The most knowledgeable people tend to be the ones that contribute the most and this consequently tends to squelch the noise.

Besides, I'm likely to take anything I read with a grain of salt, anyway, unless I know full well it's from a reliable source. The anonymous nature of wikis makes this virtually unknowable, so I don't see how this helps, except for the possible exception of discouraging a very few bad eggs. I can understand the vandalism argument, but even the brightest and best intentioned among us can make mistakes, and misinformation is the worst kind of vandalism, IMHO. But collectively, the community will see to it that stains of this nature never set--that's the beauty of it.

RigidBody
09-12-2006, 03:29 PM
first, i think it is a good choice to let only registered users edit articles. but, in my opinion, the precondition of getting a user account should not be higher than being a frequent user on this forum.

however, i think that the discussion page associated to each article should be editable by everyone, thus making it possible to give the author a feedback ("this page helped me a lot", "the algorithm did not work" etc.).

Rodrix
09-24-2007, 12:17 AM
Hi!
Almost a year has passed since the opening of this thread...


" the precondition of getting a user account should not be higher than being a frequent user on this forum.

Why not implement RigidBody's idea?
And even better make it automatic?
(if user reaches X number of posts OR/AND date registered is less than Y THEN actual user gets granted permission to edit the wiki)

This would make more people involved in the wiki, as for example I would be very interested in getting involved but I don't have time to 'officialy' edit the wiki and get an account.
Many times when I read the wiki I wish to add my experience in some of the articles, but when I reach edit... access is denied, ask for an account... This is not a barrier, but partially eliminating this with the above suggestion could lead to more activity and more useful content.

If there are some users that do not meet the established criteria (they come from other forums, or never posted) then they can send a mail (like today) and ask for an account.

I think this wiki could transform the whole community making a library of algorithms and helping developers advance more rapidly. However, I think that if we want this, then we have to enable more ability for action for the users.

This was just a suggestion!
And I think it'll solve the problem of having the same questions asked over and over again in the forums. The problem is not people asking (this is nice, and nice to be able to help) the underlying problem is the Learning Curve! OpenGl has a tought learning curve once you get to intermediatte/advanced topics and are writing your own engine. It gets really hard. Why not help users by building a great wiki with everyone's experience, not just a few ones?

Many people that know less can also collaborate on the wiki project, since it's not the same having some few wise and experienced guys writing every Y weeks than having many people writing small content every day.

I hope the OpenGl community grows fast with good tools and easy and fast resources for everyone!
Cheers!
Rod

Simon Arbon
09-24-2007, 04:42 AM
As someone who only recently registered for the OpenGL forums, this would still exclude me.
A quick browse through the wiki and i found a typo thats been there for 14 months, i could have fixed it on the spot, but i'm not allowed.

As a pascal/delphi programmer for well over 2 decades i would love to be able to add a page on how to turn a Delphi form into an OpenGL window,
and general advice on using OpenGL from pascal.

The wiki is not going to be useful until it gets a LOT more content to fill all the holes, and discouraging the casual contributor is preventing that.
Any forum member should be able to add NEW content and add to the discussion, this should be more than enough to discourage vandalism.
Perhaps older pages or any page experiencing an editing war could be limited to more experienced people.
In fact there seems to have been amazingly few edits in the last 12 months and the statistics page says that only 39 pages seem to contain legitimate content.
With so little activity it would be very easy to detect any bad edits, the violator being given a warning or banned.
The lack of activity will hurt the wiki far more than any malicious activity ever could.

Rodrix
09-24-2007, 02:27 PM
Thanks Simon for your comments!
I totally agree on that.

I think that the administrators are making a static web page, not a wiki, with all these reinforcements.

The power of a wiki is that even if someone does vandalism it can be easily reverted and doing harm is much more time consuming than reverting changes.

Considering that wiki is closed to all OpenGL forum members, I think that is enough security! And remember, the more people you have involved in the wiki the more they will protect the pages, and the more the content will grow!

There are many intelligent people on this forum that know many openGl techniques. Why not take benefit from this?

Even some do not know about EVERYTHING most are specialized in different topics, and many more can help with different implementations.

Come guys lets change this! Let's make our community grow by making this wiki a succesful project!
Imagine being able to implement any technique you want by just looking at our wiki?

Now a days, when I need to learn something I have to go to the internet and read more than 10 tutorials from different authors to gather the best of them, and make my own improved implementation. I also struggle learning which tutorials are old or new, as many authors present different (and outdated) implementations of different effects. Itīs very difficult to get to know which are old and which are the new techniques when dwelving into intermediatte/advanced topics (realistic soft shadows and lighting, water simulation, etc).

The wiki could rapidly and effectively solve this problem. Just a comment from a user saying, "this is old, use this other technique that is faster and ..." could solve all this questions and serve a primary reference.

Today the wiki is no more good than a static and incomplete page, and I think that if we change this we can make our community grow bigger and stronger! And learn more from each other specialized knowledge!

Readers take part on this... What do you think?
And board administrators please comment, since without you no action can be taken, what can you propose?

I hope this post ends in a benefit for the community, so let`s start discussing this idea, and/or proposing new ones.

Cheers!
Rod

Brolingstanz
09-25-2007, 06:16 PM
You guys (Simon and Rodrix) should go ahead and ask for an account.

Rodrix
09-25-2007, 06:59 PM
Hi Modus!
I just sent the request.
However, my main interest is in changing this wiki as a group, so my suggestion still persists.

This is what I proposed them on the mail. I hope you can read this and also comment on this idea.

"I think that if this wiki registration process is replaced with an automatic user stats checking that automatically grants accounts to users with their own forum user name, then the wiki will get much more activity than it does now.

I hope you can review this idea and post the discussion on the forum to see if other users may come up too with better ideas too, and make our wiki and our community grow!.

For me, the main problem up to now for OpenGL developers, is the lack of trusted updated tutorials regarding intermediatte/advanced topics. There are thousands of scrambled techniques, most of them outdated, and the developer doesn't always know which technique to implement. I think a solution to this could be a very frequently updated wiki and for that we need many users.

Another suggestion: I think it will be a great idea to reinforce the use of References and Bibliography on the wiki articles (like wikipedia does). So that people that post information also place the links to the web tutorials/books where they read that. This way the other users can go back to the sources and Read more or find out if there are in errors or misunderstanding on the wiki article itself.

Thanks so much for everything,
and the OpenGL Forum is just great!!!,"


Cheers!
Rod

Rodrix
10-11-2007, 07:12 AM
Hi there!

I have exchanged so emails with James this past weeks. In case you don't know him he is one great guys behind OpenGL and Khronos Group, our webmaster. :)

These are the news:
1)James is proposing now the following idea to be implemented shortly, which sounds real good to me:
In his words:
"A lot of sites these days use the forums for Tutorials too. Perhaps
it would make more sense to add a Tutorial and how-to section on the
message boards."

Guys this sounds like a wonderful idea to me. Everyone will be able to write a thread writing a tutorial and how-to on an specific topic. I think this will make the opengl learning curve easier, specially for intermediate and advanced topics. Please give him feedback to this idea on this thread.

2) The discussion on the wiki continues, and now they are "pushing on this end to
get a response on easing up on the wiki access."

Please give your feedback and what you think on this two new proposals. The more support, the faster they will probably get implemented.

Cheers!
Rod

ZbuffeR
10-11-2007, 08:41 AM
Both are promising.

pudman
10-11-2007, 02:04 PM
The more code that's posted in this forum the more I dislike the style that used in <code></code> blocks. Make it more readable!

ZbuffeR
10-12-2007, 12:12 AM
while we are at it, the double-pipe C style OR still breaks a post completely... bad for C/C++/GLSL snippets.

Rodrix
10-12-2007, 12:22 AM
I think those changes could also promote the more code being written in the posts. :)

Please everyone make sure to comment on the TWO PROPOSALS!!!!

Cheers!
Rod

Khronos_webmaster
10-17-2007, 07:19 AM
Hello all,

I just wanted to drop in for second to thank those who have made some great comments and to those that have been busy pushing the envelope my way. We are listening and hopefully we will see some positive changes very shortly.

Anyone who has some constructive critisms, ideas and suggestions, please let us know here. We want your input!

pudman
10-21-2007, 12:37 PM
For <code> blocks, check out nvidia's dev forum for how they do theirs. Font size is at least the same as normal text. Possibly a font other than courier? Fixed-width san-serif fonts look quite nice, although I know code convention in written texts is courier.

Simon Arbon
10-22-2007, 06:40 PM
The one problem i see with this is that it is splitting the information between two separate systems.
This could lead to duplication of the same information (and hence problems with keeping them both up to date and in agreement).
It also makes it harder to find information as you dont know whether to search the forum or the wiki.
To make it work you would have to have a clear specification of what sort of information should go in a forum and what should go in the wiki.

The wiki is far superior in terms of formatting (especially math equations), and its link-based structure makes it the best choice to search for a specific piece of information.

Rodrix
10-22-2007, 09:09 PM
Hi Simon!
Thanks for your comment. It's very important that all users take part in this discussion. :)

Even I understand your concern, I don't see the problem you are specifying, as for me the wiki is more of a source of reference information, tutorials, and how-to's, while the forum is to face date-to-day problems that are either not in the wiki, or that the newbie didn't know that the wiki existed and didn't do a search (or didn't find it).

And remember that if you are concerned about the "duplication of information", the forum contains lots and lots of duplicated answers and questions if do a search from years ago. Specially in the begginer's section.

I think that the wiki will lead to the good thing that is happening in most communities:
1) If someone asks about something that is already in the wiki ==> Answer will be: "Hi! You can find that answer is in the wiki here [link]. Let us know if you have any questions after reading that. :) "

or even "That question is covered in the wiki [link], but is not enough complete to answer your question. I have just updated the wiki so that it answers your question. Have a look here [link]"

2) If someone asks about something that is not in the wiki completely ==> People will answer in the forum and then someone will write the wiki page. Even more, the one that asked could be encouraged to write the solution he found using the community's responses and the posterior experience in implementing the solution or the other way around- the experts would be encouraged to write about this new topic.

3)Anyways, I think that there are many questions that will never get to the wiki and will stay in the forum, since they belong to a *discussion* and not mere referencial material. Such as: "Do you think OpenGL 3.0 is better than 2.0 in such such and such?" ... and many more discussions that involve opinion or discussion of latests trends and uses.
4) Or posts that are related to a specified code: "I can't get this code to work.. can you help me?", "I am trying to accomplish this and that and I don't know how to face this problem...." (guidance), etc.

So that's why I think the wiki and forum they must coexist together.

So I think the wiki will definitely complement the forum, making it easier for begginers, avoiding having repeated answers over and over again from intermediate/advanced users, and hopefully -what I am looking for- providing a space for sharing information about the latest OpenGl techniques and tutorials for intermediate/advanced level users.

I think the main concern is the rough learning curve that intermediate/advanced users face when trying to develop more advanced and complex OpenGl developments, as graphic techniques are changing constantly, and the user doesn't know which one is the *best* and which one is *up to date*.

I hope the wiki provides a solution to this, by letting us write up-to date tutorials, information, and how-to's for intermediate and advanced topics, apart from begginers too.

What you guys & gals think?

Cheers! :)
Rod

Simon Arbon
10-23-2007, 01:20 AM
In my previous post, i didn't mean the existing discussion forums, i was talking about the idea of having special "tutorials" forums.

@Rodrix:
These are the news:
1)James is proposing now the following idea to be implemented shortly, which sounds real good to me:
In his words:
"A lot of sites these days use the forums for Tutorials too. Perhaps
it would make more sense to add a Tutorial and how-to section on the
message boards."
I am quite happy with the discussion forums as they are, it is the Tutorials and How-to articles that i think should be in the Wiki and not in a new forum section.

Rodrix
10-23-2007, 11:49 AM
Thinking it over again...
Yeah! I think I totally agree with you!

The best place for tutorials for organization, easiness, and format, is the wiki.

However I think that Everyone (or almost everyone) should be granted access to the writing tutorials section on the wiki if it is not done on the forum, as in the forum everyone would have been able to 'post' a tutorial.

Anyways.. wiki writing access should be eased up....

What do you think?

Cheers!
Rod

Khronos_webmaster
03-31-2009, 08:32 AM
Hello,

We have eased up on the wiki access for all. If you feel you have tutorials and how-to's that are well written and tested, you are welcome to open an account on the OpenGL.org Wiki.

We have been testing the new simple registration and login for a few weeks now without issue and would like to get more people contributing.

As long as the wiki stays relatively clean and accurate and we don't have many issues with spammers etc, we will keep them open. If we find the amount of bad content is too much we will be forced to tighten up a bit on the access again.

Feel free to share your feedback and comments on this thread.

Gedolo
09-02-2009, 08:31 AM
This is a very good idea, the reason that a wiki is different from a forum are very well-thought outlined in Rodrix's post above.

It's good that there is an official OpenGL wiki.
Please don't stop with OpenGL but make an official wiki of all Khronos stuff.
And why would the information restricted to a official wiki?
Please do add the information also on Wikipedia.

And choose a very free licence for all wiki material.
For the rest, do continue, it's a wonderful, very usable idea.

maverick00
07-18-2010, 06:46 AM
its really nice 2 hv modification in the system........