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holocaust
04-09-2001, 03:19 PM
Why does some people use the word "then" when one should understand "than" ?
I don't understand this, con someone tell me ?

john
04-09-2001, 03:32 PM
because people are stupid?? <shrugs>

then and than are different words, as i'm sure you appreciate. Then is used to link ideas that follow next (i will back my bags and then go to school), whereas than is used to introduce a second element for comparison (OpenGL is better than DirectX)

Another question is why people intercghange their/there/they're and you're/your and to/too... I guess because they don't know the difference???

cheers,
John

rts
04-09-2001, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by holocaust:
Why does some people use the word "then" ...

And why do some people use the third person singular "does" when they really want the third person plural "do"? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

mmmmm... grammar Nazi.

holocaust
04-09-2001, 03:54 PM
rts : ooops, sorry for the 'does', thanks :)
rts : "grammar Nazi" ? wtf ?

john : "I guess because they don't know the difference", i guess you're right.

rts
04-09-2001, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by holocaust:

rts : "grammar Nazi" ? wtf ?


Look here:
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame31.html

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

jwatte
04-09-2001, 07:35 PM
"than", "then"; "write", "right"; "OpenGL", "Direct3D" -- why can't we all be friends?

billy
04-09-2001, 11:10 PM
That is easy.
For most people, English is not their mother tongue. Therefore, they should be excused. I think that this aspect only improves the discussions since people have completely different backgrounds.
Of course this does not mean that everyone should write awful.


[This message has been edited by billy (edited 04-10-2001).]

Tom Nuydens
04-09-2001, 11:13 PM
I think it's because those words sound the same. Even native English speakers can sometimes be caught confusing they're/their, then/than, to/two/too, its/it's, and so on. Moreover, most people are just lazy when it comes to checking they're own spelling - not me though http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

- Tom

john
04-10-2001, 03:58 AM
Howdy,

of course; those who's native language ISN'T English do a remarkable job knowing more than one language and so should---understandably---be excused. There are a vast number of people who come from English speaking countries, however, who SHOULD know better, but don't. I see bad grammar in Australia, for example; and the only language we really need to know _IS_ English.

It isn't good enough to say that they're/their/there can be interchanged because they are phoetically equivilent. Should minute (as in 60 of them make an hour) and minute (as in very small) be interchanged because they are spelt the same, but pronounced differently? Of course not.

English, like all languages, is a set of rules. True, its not a very formal language (unlike a computer language where there is very specific, defined synatax and semantic rules), but the rules are in place so people can understand ideas and concepts. I mean, language is "just" the manipulation of symbols. Actually, so is mathematics... and maths better have well defined rules for obvious reasons, and consequently, SO SHOULD ENGLISH. gees.

x + y = 10

x + x = 10 (because there/they're... its all the same, isn't it?)

therefore x=5

uh huh.

cheers,
John

mcraighead
04-10-2001, 05:45 AM
If English didn't have formal rules, then absolutely nothing would stop me from saying:

Afhbvajh gaenrin gneoau vba awrniovoda vlkbshacvw wbafiu asjcv naflisudvn li gwnuil lafb d.

English has formal rules. If you disobey them, you are WRONG. Deal with it.

- Matt

Eric
04-10-2001, 06:18 AM
If English is really such a problem for the OpenGL community, I don't mind switching back to my mother tongue, which is French !

How does it sound ? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

To Matt, I don't know much about English litterature but in France, we had a writer called Frederic Dard (aka San-Antonio) who was the king of neologisms.
He probably served his mother tongue much better by breaking the rules than (AND I SAID THAN !) he would have had by observing them...
Unfortunately, he died on June 8th 2000... I never thought I'd mention this man on this forum !

Regards

Eric

Lev
04-10-2001, 06:30 AM
Well, english isn't my navite language either, but I try to write doing as few mistakes as possible. Here in germany many people say english is a "world standard", but my english teacher said that it's actually bad english and I fully agree with him. I mean people from english-speaking countries are very tolerant, but this does not mean we should do things english grammar does not allow and feel good. I would say the fact that english is not a native language is a reason for bad english, but not an excuse. If someone can learn a programming language one should be able to learn the english language, which is really one of the simplest in the world (german or french or russian or chinese are much more difficult to learn). Conclusion: learn english and do yourself and others a favor.

-Lev

Siwko
04-10-2001, 06:54 AM
Now come on people...

You have to admit - most non-native English speakers happen to speak English far better "than" native English speakers, simply because they don't know all of the idiotic rules and misdirections that the language has. Most non-English languages have far better syntax, grammer, and simpler rules "than" English. They also have fewer conflicting words and phrase structures "than" English does.

Seriously, how many languages out there have objects which can be represented by more than 5 words? How many languages out there are as ambiguous as English, where one word can have upwards of 20 different meanings? Simply put, English is a phrase-structure dependent language, where to understand the complete meaning of the phrase, you must look into the speaker's mind to understand what he/she/it is trying to convey.

And "then" there is American-English. Oh my God, don't even get me started on that one!

"Its like, you know, the hottest cool thing around!"

They (loosely) need to beat the word "like" out of human vocabulary when used in phrases "like" that.

By the way, my background here is a natively born American - though this is a misnomer in itself. I am a natively born citizen of the United States of America, raised by two Polish immigrant parents. I will not say I speak "English", I speak "American", though I try to be as proper as possible when speaking.

And I think this thread isn't about saying or thinking "then" versus "then". It's more about written English. Most people here understand the meaning of what is being written. Most people that are writing don't care much about the syntax of their statements, they just care that the idea is being conveyed and that they get an answer from somebody who can help them.

But I must admit - I agree completely. It's a shame that people don't know how to write properly. Of course, neither do I... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Siwko

mcraighead
04-10-2001, 08:07 AM
My favorite author (Ayn Rand) was born in Russia. She was multilingual -- she spoke Russian, French, English, and at least one other language that I forget. She wrote once that of all the languages she knew, English was the most expressive.

For a person born in a foreign country, for a person whose first language was not English, her writing is remarkable. Not only is her writing better than most native Americans, but she is also perhaps the clearest writer I know. Her fiction is brilliant; her non-fiction is equally amazing. Her reviews of articles in popular media are incredible. She quotes the article for you, and then proceeds to utterly demolish full paragraphs of it in one or two sentences; then she moves on to more of the article and does the same.

Oh, and she preferred American English. She also preferred America to Europe in general, saying that America was the _only_ moral country ever to exist. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

[Warning: Ayn Rand is not only my favorite writer, but also my favorite philosopher.]

- Matt

Alessandro_dup1
04-10-2001, 08:17 AM
i think i know english quite well, but it is still difficult for me to think in italian and write it in english, so you should excuse me and all the ones whose mother tongue is not english, if sometimes we mess around with it !

davepermen
04-10-2001, 09:11 AM
hm.. i learned some english in school.. simple how-to-build-a-sentence-wich-sounds-ok ( wich/witch .. ).. yeah.. that whas never much.. but then i got an internet connection and started surfing.. i started learning coding at the same time, too.. and so i had to read a lot of english stuff.. now i can read nearly everything, and i think i can write about most thematics, too.. and thats all just because of you


thank you all..

at the end, a nice little text.. i currently translate it to swissgerman to send it to my girl.. perhaps you know the text..


my tea's gone cold, I'm wondering why I got out of bed at all
the morning rain clouds up my window and I can't see at all
and even if I could it'd all be grey, but your picture on my wall
it reminds me that it's not so bad, it's not so bad

I drank too much last night, got bills to pay, my head just feels in pain
I missed the bus and there 'll be hell today, I'm late for work again
and even if I'm there, they 'll all imply that I might not last the day
and then you call me and it's not so bad, it's not so bad and

I want to thank you for giving me the best day of my life
oh just to be with you is having the best day of my life

push the door, I'm home at lasts and I'm soaking through and through
then you handed me a towel and all I see is you
and even if my house falls down now, I wouldn't have a clue
because you're near me and
I want to thank you for giving me the best day of my life
oh just to be with you is having the best day of my life


i know this is really off the offtopic, but its such a nice text.. have to post it somewhere..

( some english problems: life/live.. to live, and the life, i think, right? others are possibly following http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif )

davepermen
04-10-2001, 09:14 AM
Why does some people use the word "then" when one should understand "than" ?


hm.. Why does some people use the word "when" when it possibly can be an "if"..?!

when an if and when not?
if we have a subject that does something like in the if( x == 0 ), a true false.. hm.. english is funny.. like it, love it, write it, read it, just let it be..

DaViper
04-10-2001, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by mcraighead:

Oh, and she preferred American English. She also preferred America to Europe in general, saying that America was the _only_ moral country ever to exist. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif


ohoh we could get into a flame about this comment http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

MikeM
04-10-2001, 09:43 AM
Don't flame Matt until after you've read Ayn Rand's 'Atlas Shrugged' and 'We The Living'. Her reason for making such a statement may become clear.

-MikeM

Lev
04-10-2001, 09:46 AM
to Siwko:

come on, I really do think english is one of the easiest languages to learn, thats one of the reasons for its success.

My native language is russian and I learnt german and english and I must say german is more difficult to learn and i'm happy I had not to learn russian (6 cases, ...), its complexity is near to latin's.

The only problematic aspects to me were times in english, there are just too many, like 32 or so. When you learn the basics, like "i like, i liked, i've liked, i'd liked, ..." everything is clear, but when you hear things like variations of "i should/could/... have liked" then its sometimes not easy to decide which time to use.

And as far as american english goes, its not that big difference, and here in germany (don't know about the rest of yurp(europe)) british english seems to be more "in". Though when i hear [daielog] I would spell it "dialog" and not "dialogue".

-Lev

Lev
04-10-2001, 09:57 AM
Oh and as far as the morality of countries is concerned, in my opinion this is a non-topic. What is a county? a government? or people?, if its the government then USA needs an H-bomb, in case its people its just a country like any other.

-Lev

P.S. my favorite authors are Clifford Simak and Jack London, both from US.

JoeMac
04-10-2001, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by MikeM:
Don't flame Matt until after you've read Ayn Rand's 'Atlas Shrugged' and 'We The Living'. Her reason for making such a statement may become clear.

-MikeM

I have read both, and I say all the more reason for flame.
I was just about to go into (much) more detail, but thought better about it considering the lack of a 'political philosophy' section on this list. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif
Joe

mcraighead
04-10-2001, 11:33 AM
The context of the claim was that the _principles_ behind the US government are the only moral principles to found a government upon. She objected to many of the practices of said government, of course (though for radically different reasons than most people).

- Matt

rts
04-10-2001, 11:44 AM
Ugh. Objectivism :P

When I read mcraighead's missives re: anti-trust and all that, I'm largely in agreement with him, being a Libertarian and all.

However...

Ayn Rand is considered a pseudo-philosopher by philosophers in the same way that creationists are considered pseudo-scientists by scientists. Holding Ayn Rand up as an example of English literary accomplishment is, well, baffling (yes, I've read her fiction and non-fiction work as well). Yes, she had many valid points, but they were essentially lost in the quagmire of sloppy application.

For an excellent critique of the cult of Ayn Rand, I would recommend the chapter entitled "The Most Unlikely Cult" in Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things (http://www.chapters.ca/books/details/default.asp?mscssid=NBWXETBX3QN39N62V1PU55ND6CAV1F E1&WSID=1604B29D53E7B1AB47B7A51BB5CE62FBF64C4310&ISBN=1559275138) .

heh... how much further off-topic can we get? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by rts (edited 04-10-2001).]

mcraighead
04-10-2001, 01:18 PM
Well, I consider most "modern" philosophers to be pseudo-philosophers myself. Anyone who tells you that reality doesn't exist or is subjective, or that man's mind is powerless to understand it, is insane.

Many modern philosophers _admit_ that their philosophy cannot be applied to reality.

Is it any surprise, then, that philosophy is scorned by most people as the most useless of all sciences?

Even if you don't like Rand's own philosophy, I would hope that you would take a few things from it. One, the primacy of reason as man's means of knowledge (as opposed to mystic revelation or total skepticism). Two, the primacy of _ideas_ in shaping human events. And three, the incredible importance of philosophy to every aspect of our lives.

- Matt

rts
04-10-2001, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by mcraighead:
Even if you don't like Rand's own philosophy, I would hope that you would take a few things from it. One, the primacy of reason as man's means of knowledge (as opposed to mystic revelation or total skepticism). Two, the primacy of _ideas_ in shaping human events. And three, the incredible importance of philosophy to every aspect of our lives.


Indeed... I would classify these under her "many valid points".

Cheers.

holocaust
04-10-2001, 02:52 PM
jwatte wrote :


"than", "then"; "write", "right"; "OpenGL", "Direct3D" -- why can't we all be friends?


ahahahah !! ;)

john
04-10-2001, 05:04 PM
If English didn't have formal rules, then absolutely nothing would stop me from saying:
Afhbvajh gaenrin gneoau vba awrniovoda vlkbshacvw wbafiu asjcv naflisudvn li gwnuil lafb d.

English has formal rules. If you disobey them, you are WRONG. Deal with it.

Hmm, you're misunderstanding me. Human languages *have* rules, yes, but they are not all well defined. This is exactly the reason why its so difficult to write machine translators for spoken languages. Computer languages have VERY well defined, formal rules expressed in EBNF notation. Consequently, if you want to refer to an array, then the index _must_ be enclosed within [] brackets. Must; no exceptions. But English isn't like this... there are loose rules (and firm rules) and exceptions and colloquisms and a whole host of rules which are not formally defined. Some are; like the form of the indefinte article is "a" if the following noun begins with a constonant, but is "an" when the following noun begins with a vowel (thus, its "a" directx driver, and "AN" opengl driver). I maintain, however, that not all of them are so well defined (ergo machine translators are difficult to write, whereas compilers are PROVABLY correct).

You ARE right that languages MUST adhere to the rules so everyone can make sense. I have never said otherwise; infact, i whole heartedly agree (and you can check this in my other posts where this has been brought up), because language IS the way we communicate. Besdies, it jsut drives me insane when i see some idiot rihgt

your going to right a opengl program for there demonstration, to?

knowing what is wrong with that sentence isn't brain surgery... its stuff that english speaking countries learn in primary school.



I will not say I speak "English", I speak "American", though I try to be as proper as possible when speaking.

good stuff =) actually, i heard a rumour that microsoft has moved English(USA) up to "American", because too many stupid Americans didn't realise that they spoke an Americanised form of ENGLISH. Seriously. They were looking in the A section of the languages and couldn't see their own language.


hm.. Why does some people use the word "when" when it possibly can be an "if"..?!
when an if and when not?
if we have a subject that does something like in the if( x == 0 ), a true false.. hm.. english is funny.. like it, love it, write it, read it, just let it be..

why do some people use a conditional, when no conditional is required? I've read, for example, the phrase "if you're thinking of doing X, then don't". WHich is a very clumsy way of saying "don't think of doing X" or even "do not do X". There is not need for the conditional because the INTENTION of the sentence isn't dependent on whether the reader is thinking about it, or not: its a directive. Its probably a subtle point which i haven't illuminated all that well, but. eh.

cheers,
John




[This message has been edited by john (edited 04-10-2001).]

Michael Steinberg
04-10-2001, 10:18 PM
Are you all crazy to talk about such a ****????? ;-)

The human language is not only needed to interact but also to think. If I couldn't speak german, I couldn't think logical! It's clear that we all need to give our best english in order to be understandable to others.

I've got a great question: Did anybody of you think without using words somewhen? The worse our native language gets, the worse can we think. (That's why I'm so stupid...)

And this is also why I always excuse myself for my english, because I need to get help here and can't formulate clear sentences, so you've got the work interpreting what I wrote... My bits...

Olive
04-10-2001, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Michael Steinberg:
Did anybody of you think without using words somewhen? The worse our native language gets, the worse can we think.

Your absolutely write ! Ok... joke http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif guys... right. No but seriously, thats an excellent remark that will probably enlighten my day.
I'm not much into philosophy/cognition/linguistics so excuse me if that remark strikes me. I suppose it could seem obvious to many...
Sorry to continue on this off-topic subject, but, Michael, do you have any references (articles, books) on what you're saying or did this just come off your mind? I'm asking because I'm trying to find arguments against the overuse of "simplified" languages (a bit like "ghetto" slang with usually a much more limited vocabulary). I'm thinking of France (I'm french by the way) where the government and media at one time, sort of "officialised" the use of a "ghetto" slang called "verlan", which is good in the sense that, like any language, it brings with it a certain culture. The bad point is that young people that came from these ghettos could feel that their way talking was sufficient, and if I follow your point, limiting themselves in their thinking, not even talking about keeping themselves in their cultural "ghetto".
Ok, I'm finished...


[This message has been edited by Olive (edited 04-11-2001).]

Michael Steinberg
04-10-2001, 11:37 PM
Well, this is just my experience, sorry Olive. I can't provide any articles. Isn't that obvious? ;-)

No serious. In my school life, I've been quite good at the beginning. But later on I focused heavily on mathematics programming etc. I got better in scientific thinking etc. But on the other hand, my english, my german relating literature got very bad. I've been thinking about that and this was my answer. In my tests, I seem only to write the stuff which really interrests me. I kind of think that the other things I think off are obvious, kind of scraping on the surface. Currently I think I can't do anything against that, because I can't stop my habits. I simply don't enjoy interpreting feelings of actors in books. I admire the ones here which are good in this stuff though.

This all is the reason why girls aren't so good in mathematics, I think. The community "forces" them to focus on literature, on feelings etc.. They simply didn't learn the mathematical language, so they can't think mathmetically spoken.
This is not meant against women, there are many which aren't like this, and I think everyone has the potential, maybe especially the women!
Same applies to me... ;-)

I also believe that mathematicians are lazy and have fear of new stuff. I mean, don't we all want to precalculate the world? I always try to avoid new situations. People who focus on literature live from the experience.

DaViper
04-11-2001, 01:00 AM
I don't think mathematians are lazy or precalculative. It just depends on what you want and what you think of life.
Reading obviously supports the development of your character and your mental attitude towards live, even if you don't like the author or his or her ideas., because you are forced to think about those ideas and quarrel yourself if they fit in your life or not.


Chris

Michael Steinberg
04-11-2001, 01:04 AM
In the second thing I completely agree with you... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

GrimbleGromble
04-11-2001, 01:27 AM
"...saying that America was the _only_ moral country ever to exist.
[Warning: Ayn Rand is not only my favorite writer,
but also my favorite philosopher.]..."

Ayn Rand, hmm, wait Mac, the name doesn't begin with "S" ...
And there is no "S" in Ayn Rand...

"...The context of the claim was that the _principles_ behind the US government are the only moral principles to found a government upon. She objected to many of the practices of said government, of course (though for radically different reasons than most people). ..."

to speak about "moral" in 20/21 century... hmm... funny
"moral principles" ???

"...Well, I consider most "modern" philosophers to be pseudo-philosophers myself. Anyone who tells you that reality doesn't exist or is subjective, or that man's mind is powerless to understand it, is insane. ..."

so how is the reality, or what is the reality ?

Michael Steinberg
04-11-2001, 01:46 AM
Ahhh... where did I leave my beer... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Siwko
04-11-2001, 04:16 AM
Can we get this thread in UNICODE so that everyone can read it?

How about MBCS?

Or are we just stuck with ASCII?

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Siwko

Eric
04-11-2001, 04:47 AM
Actually, there is a language that is supposed to be "Universal": it was built using different rules/words from several known languages (if I remember correctly)...

The unfortunate thing is that I cannot remember its name...

>>>>> Quick Search on the internet <<<<<

Can't find it...

>>>>> Quick call to my fiancee <<<<<

Yeah ! That's called "ESPERANTO".
http://www.esperanto.net/

I am sending an e-mail to the webmaster to check if he can change the whole site to use this. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Regards.

Eric

Tom Nuydens
04-11-2001, 05:17 AM
Here's a machine translation of Eric's post:


Translated at http://translate.lhsl.com/
Réellement, il y a un langage qui est supposé être " Universel ": il a été construit utiliser rules/words différent de plusieurs langages connus (si je me souviens correctement)...
La chose fâcheuse est que je ne peux pas me souvenir de son nom...

>>>> > Recherche rapide sur l'internet <<<<<

Ne pas le trouver...

>>>> > Appel rapide à ma fiancée <<<<<

Ouais! Cela est appelé " ESPÉRANTO ".
http:/ /www.esperanto.le filet /

J'envoie un e-mail à l'administrateur de site Internet pour vérifier s'il peut changer le site entier pour utiliser ceci.

Les amitiés.

Eric

I especially like what it did to the URL http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

If web browsers had this stuff built in, we wouldn't even need a universal language http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

- Tom

Eric
04-11-2001, 05:20 AM
Hey Tom, that's actually quite "a good" translation !!!!

Last time I had a look at translators, they were really poor (mind you, it was on an Atari Falcon !).

Your idea sounds good but the thing is, if this stuff was built in web browsers, we wouldn't understand each other anymore ! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Regards.

Eric

Michael Steinberg
04-11-2001, 05:32 AM
Yeah, I also think that this translation was quite good from what I remember of french!

AndersO
04-11-2001, 05:42 AM
You guys should try babelfish translate some sentence in english to japanese and *then* the japanese result to english again, and a couple of more iterations... I laugh allday long..

Here is an example:

Orginal text:

Opengl is a very good application programming interface for doing pretty three dimensional pictures

After some translations:

Clearly there is an umbrella which does the good application programming software three dimensional image in regard to the Opengl very with order and other things

Where did the umbrella come from?. Beats me. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Michael Steinberg
04-11-2001, 05:44 AM
Hahahahhh ahhhahahha................................... Oh man, that one caught me... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif Great!

JoeMac
04-11-2001, 08:57 AM
Babelfish? now inserting a towel, I could understand... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

holocaust
04-11-2001, 09:52 AM
Bref, vaut mieux pas se prendre la tête :
on a tous un cerveau qui est capable d'un tas de choses fantastiques comme comprendre et utiliser plusieurs langues. La principale variable ici c'est vous :)

translation :
Well, <cannot translate this> :
each of us has a brain which can do many cool things like understand and use several languages. Here the main variable is you ;)

sorry for my english : i'm French :)

zed
04-11-2001, 01:54 PM
im having trouble logging into http://www.esperanto.le filet/ anyone with any ideas as to whats up

CViper
04-12-2001, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by zed:
im having trouble logging into http://www.esperanto.le filet/ anyone with any ideas as to whats up

Ahm.. if i understood it right, thats a translation of www.esperanto.net... (http://www.esperanto.net...) (whatever did the translation, translated "net" to "le filet"; i ain't sure, 'cause i dont really understand whatever language that is http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif i just talk german (& swissgerman), swedish, somewhat english and even less finish http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/tongue.gif)

btw: you can have a lot of fun with different languages, specially if they are somewhat alike. ex: german "faul" ( =lazy) sounds like the swedish "ful" ( =ugly)... Now guess what i said the first time i tried to say i had not done my homework yet, because i too lazy (in swedish)...

Michael Steinberg
04-12-2001, 06:51 AM
i hope the one you told that laughed... otherwise I personnly would had turned red... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

D'Agostini
04-13-2001, 03:50 AM
Mistakes in English? You should see my first language : "Brazilian portuguese". It has more rules than you can imagine. Just the word "why" can have 4 translations, one to the Substantive, one to answer, one to ask and another one for answering with the word in the end of the sentence.

"Eu queria saber por que é que eu estou escrevendo isso?. A qüalidade de língua complicada do Português é indiscutível, entretanto. "

We should start speaking in Sindar (elvish)

coredump
04-13-2001, 06:26 AM
languages are kooky. english is my native tongue, but from studying spanish and french, english seems it would be one of the hardest languaged to learn. it contains words from many different backgrounds, and 1000+ vowel sounds (compared to 5 in spanish). take the letters "-ough". at least 4 non-rhyming words contain these letters... rough, cough, bough, through. raise and raze are interesting because they are homonyms(words that sound the same) and antonyms (words that have opposite meanings). read and read (present and past tense for the same verb!) the list goes on and on. one of my favorites is the spanish word "esposa", meaning both "wife" and "handcuff"

b

Dodger
04-13-2001, 10:02 AM
Coredump... tried to learn German yet? I am native German, and believe me when I say learning english is one of the easiest things I've ever done. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

Dodger
04-13-2001, 10:05 AM
BTW, my favorite foreign word is the taiwanese 'Mah' (trying to put the sound into english pronounciation here), which, how a friend of mine from Taiwan told me, can mean both Mother and Horse, depending on the intonation.

Overmind
04-14-2001, 12:56 AM
english seems it would be one of the hardest languaged to learn
http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

English grammar is very easy to learn. You have strict rules where each word has to be placed in each sentence.

In German, you can place each word at nearly every position. For example, you can write a sentence that is 3 lines long, and the verb comes LAST. That means when you hear someone talking it can happen that you have to "cache" 3 lines of text and you only understand the meaning when you hear the last word.

Once I heard a politician who spoke 10(!) minutes without finishing a single sentence. Of course this is rather uncommon, but sentences with 3-4 lines are used rather often in german (and not only in written german).

Michael Steinberg
04-14-2001, 02:29 AM
never saw my german teachers talking lines...

AHa
04-15-2001, 09:25 PM
simple i can't speak English http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

I can only speak Dutch (Nederlands) http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Hehe en dat kunnen jullie lekker niet begrijpen http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

billy
04-15-2001, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by holocaust:
Why does some people use the word "then" when one should understand "than" ?
I don't understand this, con someone tell me ?


Why do you use "con" when you mean "can"?

Overmind
04-16-2001, 12:48 AM
When I talk of lines, I mean lines of written text (on a computer). One line is about 20-25 words.

MarcusL
04-16-2001, 06:44 AM
It hard to discuss stuff in German, because you can't just agree with someone in mid sentence, because you have to hear it all before knowing what it was about.

I've studied German for 6 years, and it's rapidly fading away simply due to the fact that I'm not exposed to it. I don't hear it, I don't read it, I don't write it and least of all talk it.

With English, I read/write it more than I do Swedish (which is my native language) currenlty, mostly because I code a lot, I study a lot (all literature is in English at this level) and I spend a lot of time on the internet.

It's horrific, I tried writing some techical documentation a few weeks ago in Swedish, and I stumped on every fifth word because all the terms that came up in my head were in English! I also have to fight with myself to use Swedish words instead of English when talking to my friends, especially for computer related stuff. (But also for other things.. as almost all fiction I read is in English too.)

I'm going to try to learn some Japanese after summer. Just for the heck of it, plus that I like watching Anime. I hate dubbed movies, subtitling rules but it would be fun to know some of the spoken language too. All foreign films here in Sweden are subbed, so it's very easy to pick up common expressions and such in other languages. (And since 99% of all foreign films are in English, you tend to learn that quite rapidly.)

Phew, what a rant.. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

CViper
04-17-2001, 06:45 AM
Well i like english anyway a lot more than swedish or german in subjects like programming (computers) etc. (reading let say a open gl book in swedish/german just feels wrong =] )

You have to hear a complete sentence in german before beeing able to respond? I wouldnt say that... But then anyway: how nice is it to just disagree with someone, before he even got a chance to say what he wants http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/tongue.gif

Its fancy how many schools here in sweden have possibilities to teach japanese/chinese ... (Japanese (or maybe chinese) would be nice to try, but right now i dont have the time http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif )

Whatever.