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Dakeyras
01-08-2002, 06:53 AM
Posted the following msg on the beginner's forum, had no replies. Please help, thanks.

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Hi,
While I'm relatively familiar with OpenGL, recently I've started programming with nvidia cards. I've grabbed their SDK, read some of their extensions pdfs and stuff.

While I can figure out how to link to their extensions, what I would really like is some API documentation like Java has. For example, I would like to see what arguments go into glCombinerInputNV().

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Something like this (but for nvidia sdk) would be great: http://www.cevis.uni-bremen.de/~uwe/opengl/opengl.html

GPSnoopy
01-08-2002, 07:01 AM
http://developer.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=nvidia_opengl_specs might be want you want, but I warn you it's not intended for learning OpenGL, it's more like a technical reference.

Dakeyras
01-08-2002, 07:09 AM
mm yeah thanks, I've seen that already.

Yes that is a bit too technical, I was hoping for something more on the sdk user side rather than on the sdk designer side. Was hoping someone came up with an easier-to-read list http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

dorbie
01-08-2002, 11:16 PM
There should be a glext.h file in the SDK

Look at this, but remember it's out of date, you need the latest stuff from NVIDIA, which I think you already have.
http://www.berkelium.com/OpenGL/NVIDIA/extensions.html

kon
01-09-2002, 12:17 AM
Man pages of the extensions would be very useful but AFAIK there isn't such thing. This was asked here http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/Forum3/HTML/004371.html and I think you have to live with the extension registry http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/

kon

ScottManDeath
01-09-2002, 04:36 AM
Hi
I think the extensions registry should be used as a reference for understanding code samples.It also useful do get some pdf files from nvidia.com

bye
ScottManDeath

knackered
01-09-2002, 07:53 AM
As far as I can make out, NVidias extensions to opengl are the most useful, and the most used. OpenGL is used exclusively in almost every application other than games - but games are where the money (and DirectX) is. But the simulator/3d tools market alone should justify NVidia producing a proper SDK for their *radically* extended version of opengl. The current SDK has virtually no documentation, and the documentation on their website consists of nothing but pdf/powerpoint bulletpoint type presentations, with the odd demo (a lot of which have been sent in by nice people).
Compare and contrast this with the DirectX 8 SDK. That has *extensive* documentation on almost every area of DX, written using the ms help file system/html and includes links to lots of examples included within the sdk. It's a massive download, but most definately worth it. A lot of understanding of the concepts involved in the new features of opengl can be gleaned from the DX8 documentation - but none of the details, obviously (which is what I and a lot of the contributors to this forum need!).
This shouldn't be the case. NVidia should spend some more time on the documentation - forget the bulletpoint presentations, and give us some more detailed articles on the various new features, plus examples of how they could be used - and not rely on *this* newsgroup to fill in the huge gaps in knowledge that most developers are obviously experiencing. If Matt and Cass are sick of answering the same questions over and over again (and who can blame them?), why don't they produce documents? And if they have produced documents, why don't they include them in the sdk? Centralise everything.
Don't get me wrong, I think Nvidia are doing a good job with their dev support, but it could be a whole lot better...

mcraighead
01-09-2002, 05:16 PM
I'm all in favor of better documentation.

In the meantime, I have a driver to work on... http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

- Matt

Elixer
01-09-2002, 09:44 PM
Lol... Matt is correct, we don't need no stink'n docs! We need better drivers! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

I just hope that the driver you are working on is better than the 23.11 drivers which turned out to be the ones that caused the lockups in my system. Only took me 2 days to finally nail it down. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif

knackered
01-09-2002, 11:55 PM
Ermm, that's an NVidia human resources management issue, and shouldn't really be of concern to your customers! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif
I know it's not quite the same thing, but I have to produce quite pedantic documentation to ship with the simulators we produce, even though there's 101 other things I could be working on. It's what the customers expect - what's the point in us producing features that nobody knows about or how to use, without lots of time experimenting?
Your drivers are quite stable, and your feature set is quite enough for now, in my opinion (although I'm aware that you're in competition with ATI - why don't you just buy them out like you did with 3dfx?). I think it's time to properly document what you've done so far.
But as I say, I think you people have done a nice job so far, but *lots* of room for improvement.

BTW, Matt - how many times are you going to answer questions in this forum on VAR, Register Combiners, Texture Shaders, and Vertex Programs before you realise that some decent documentation shipped with the sdk would actually give you *more* time to write your drivers? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by knackered (edited 01-10-2002).]

mcraighead
01-10-2002, 02:11 AM
Well, in theory, my job shouldn't involve trolling this message board at all...

You may have noticed that I don't _actually_ answer that many coding questions. Instead, I look for bug reports and clarify misconceptions (of which there are always many).

The last thing I need to do is start writing tons of developer documentation. Sure, that would be useful to have, but I am one person.

- Matt

mcraighead
01-10-2002, 02:13 AM
Also, I think we do a decent job of making our extension specs readable and detailed. The specs can be intimidating but they're not really so bad.

- Matt

knackered
01-10-2002, 03:15 AM
I appreciate you're a busy man. You're doing a very good job, and it must be very exciting to be involved in all this stuff at this point in time.

I just believe that if it takes 10,000 men 1 hour to comprehend a spec, then someone could probably save those 10,000 men 40 minutes each if the spec were to be written as a programming guide as well (red vs blue opengl books, for example). I really don't like those pdf presentations - a pdf/powerpoint slideshow is only *part* of a presentation in real life, the main tool would be someone adding detail to each point made....scrap them, or pad them out. I find the tutorials Cass has produced are a much better format.
Even if you charged us for the downloads, I wouldn't mind.
You must have some junior programmers there, with a reasonable grasp of the hardware caps & opengl, who could maybe compile some reasonable docs? Clarifying stuff with you, Cass and the other driver writers?

I just thought it needed mentioning, because of the flurry of new extensions. Didn't really want to add to your stresses. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you both contribute to this forum - there are so many bullsh*tters around that it's invaluable to have info from the horses mouth (so to speak).

mcraighead
01-10-2002, 04:13 PM
Let me put it this way: I agree with you. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif I'm just not the person to be doing that.

- Matt