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Optimizer
08-14-2002, 08:58 AM
Hi,

I've just released my OpenGL game.

You can download it here: http://mirror1.sunnygames.com/download/BrixoutXP_Demo_v10.exe (4.5 Meg)

Description of the game, engine and screenshots can be found here: http://www.sunnygames.com/brixout.html

In case of any problem feel free to get in touch at mailto:support@sunnygames.com

Any feedback is really appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Optimizer (edited 09-01-2002).]

Optimizer
08-16-2002, 08:53 AM
I've just released update to the demo. You can download it here:
http://mirror1.sunnygames.com/download/BrixoutXP_Demo_v097.exe (4.7 Mb)

In this version:
- fixed bug with some models of TFT monitors;
- motion of the camera was made smoother;
- added EXTRA-LIFE feature;
- fixed some other bugs.

Any feedback is appreciated.


[This message has been edited by Optimizer (edited 08-16-2002).]

LordKronos
08-16-2002, 09:12 AM
Well, hey. If we're gonna spam the boards, I guess I might as well mention I released my cool new openGL logic/puzzle game Miko & Molly a few weeks ago.

http://www.kronos-software.com



[This message has been edited by LordKronos (edited 08-16-2002).]

PH
08-16-2002, 09:26 AM
LordKronos,

I actually tried your game a few days ago. I liked it! It reminds me of how games were made during the early 80's ( and that's enough for me http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif ). The music is great.

I have a few comments:

(1) I couldn't get past the ice on level 2 and the bounce pad didn't always work.

(2) The "Not Registered" sign is annoying. Why not just have that on the main title screen only ?

(3) Please change the name to "Mick and Molly" http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

Nutty
08-16-2002, 09:28 AM
Dude, thats top! Very polished very nice. Didn't find any bugs while I played it for the 1st 3 levels.

Loved the space ship blasting my blocks, and the Z switch was a right cheeky move.. Nice!

The models around the level are very nice, good sound effects too.. Nice work! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Nutty
08-16-2002, 09:30 AM
You made any money from that Kronos? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

PH
08-16-2002, 09:42 AM
Optimizer,

That is excellent work http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif! This is definitely a lot of fun. I've only just tried some of level 1 right now and it was a blast. I like the small power-up things that float down and made the bat twice as big ( and another one that made lightning strike ).
Music, sound and graphics are very nice too.

LordKronos
08-16-2002, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Nutty:
You made any money from that Kronos? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Not yet. I just released it 2 weeks ago, but I haven't been publicizing it much yet (hardly at all). I'm entering the game in the IGF for GDC 2003, so mostly I've just been getting feedback from a few dozen people from flipcode and gamedev, along with about 15 friends/relatives. I've got about another week to polish it up and squish a few odd compatability bugs before sending it off (IGF judges must receive the game by Sep 1). Once that is done I will step up my marking of the game. I have high hopes for the game, though.

*Aaron*
08-16-2002, 05:55 PM
LordKronos,

What a great cutting edge game! It really pushes the boundaries of today's graphics technology. It's my new favorite game (next to Pacman.) My only complaint is that you should have put some messages into the demo asking if the player wants to "Buy it now!". Keep up the great work.

WhatEver
08-16-2002, 07:39 PM
Both games are pretty cool! Kudos to both of ya!

Optimizer
08-16-2002, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by *Aaron*:
LordKronos,

What a great cutting edge game! It really pushes the boundaries of today's graphics technology. It's my new favorite game (next to Pacman.) My only complaint is that you should have put some messages into the demo asking if the player wants to "Buy it now!".

What kind of message? Do you mean simething like "If you would like to buy this game ......"? Right?

Rob The Bloke
08-17-2002, 04:21 AM
Optimizer:

my only little complaint is with the controls. The pad is a bit too hectic to control, i reackon it should start of a bit slower when it moves and accelerate to it's max speed. Also, it would be fairly nice to have some direct input support for my joypad....

Pretty cool though

LordKronos
08-17-2002, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by *Aaron*:
LordKronos,
What a great cutting edge game! It really pushes the boundaries of today's graphics technology. It's my new favorite game (next to Pacman.) My only complaint is that you should have put some messages into the demo asking if the player wants to "Buy it now!". Keep up the great work.

Nice use of sarcasm. Luckily people like you are not my target market. My target market consists of people who would actually like to buy the game, rather than just complain "I like the game enough to play it, but damn those registration messages annoy me too much, and I'm too cheep to pay to get rid of them". I just don't understand people who complain about the registration messages. Either you like the game, in which case you can pay to get rid of them (among other things, like getting almost 40 more levels), or you don't like the game, in which case you have no need to play the game so you won't be bothered by it.

Coincidentally, that target market also tends not to play games like quake. Some of them dont have more than a Riva 128. Let's see you do all of your flashy graphics on one of those. I mean seriously, pretty graphics for the sake of pretty graphics is just silly, especially when in doing so you alienate people with hardware more than 6 months old.

P.S. *Aaron*, what OS do you use?


[This message has been edited by LordKronos (edited 08-17-2002).]

Optimizer
08-17-2002, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by Rob The Bloke:
Optimizer:

my only little complaint is with the controls. The pad is a bit too hectic to control, i reackon it should start of a bit slower when it moves and accelerate to it's max speed. Also, it would be fairly nice to have some direct input support for my joypad....

Pretty cool though



Try to use mouse instead of keyboard.

Rob The Bloke
08-17-2002, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by Optimizer:
Try to use mouse instead of keyboard.

tried it with mouse but it's way to hectic, ie, less than 1cm movement covers the entire playing area. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif

A possible mouse sensitivity option in the options menu perhaps?

I still maintain my original comments, mainly cos I spent money on purchasing a nice joypad and I want to use it dammit !

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/tongue.gif

PH
08-17-2002, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by LordKronos:
...My target market consists of people who would actually like to buy the game, rather than just complain "I like the game enough to play it, but damn those registration messages annoy me too much, and I'm too cheep to pay to get rid of them"...

That almost sounds like you were refering to my comment above.

Just for the record, I _did_ respond with e-mail feedback to Kronos that led to him finding & solving a "play-stopping" bug ( the boundce pads and the ice didn't work on my machine ).

Certainly, you don't mean that I'm cheap, do you Kronos http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif ?.

Optimizer
08-17-2002, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by Rob The Bloke:
tried it with mouse but it's way to hectic, ie, less than 1cm movement covers the entire playing area. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif

A possible mouse sensitivity option in the options menu perhaps?

I still maintain my original comments, mainly cos I spent money on purchasing a nice joypad and I want to use it dammit !

http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/tongue.gif

Well, the game does not change the mouse speed, it uses the same speed as you have in Windows. Try to disable mouse acceleration it helps a lot. Anyway I'll change paddle movement in the next version.

About joypad. The problem is I do not use DirectX at all and I am not sure if Windows supports it without DirectX.

LordKronos
08-17-2002, 05:22 AM
PH. Read the tone or *Aaron*'s message again, then read the tone of your message. His (sarcastic) message sounds like whining and complaining to me. Your message (to me) sounds more like a suggestion, that along with the fact that you gave me constructive feedback. Not sure though why you felt it so necessary to mention what bugs you found when you already notified me of them directly.

Optimizer: In the help screen (first page I think) there is a sentence that says after detroying all bricks "you will be immediately proceed to the next level". The word "be" doesn't make sense there...remove it. Also, a keyboard repeat for the menu system would be a nice little touch.

LordKronos
08-17-2002, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by Optimizer:
About joypad. The problem is I do not use DirectX at all and I am not sure if Windows supports it without DirectX.

Yes it does, and I used it as a fallback option in Miko & Molly, so I know it works quite well. Take a look into these functions:

joyGetNumDevs
joyGetDevCaps
joyGetPos
joyGetPosEx

Optimizer
08-17-2002, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by LordKronos:

Optimizer: In the help screen (first page I think) there is a sentence that says after detroying all bricks "you will be immediately proceed to the next level". The word "be" doesn't make sense there...remove it. Also, a keyboard repeat for the menu system would be a nice little touch.

I just rewrote help and corrected lot of grammar errors / misspelings. Also thanks for joy* functions.

PH
08-17-2002, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by LordKronos:
PH. Read the tone or *Aaron*'s message again, then read the tone of your message. His (sarcastic) message sounds like whining and complaining to me. Your message (to me) sounds more like a suggestion, that along with the fact that you gave me constructive feedback. Not sure though why you felt it so necessary to mention what bugs you found when you already notified me of them directly.


Oh, I missed *Aaron*'s post...sorry.

The reason I mentioned the bugs, was just to point out that I was trying to be helpful and not just posting a complaint about the "annoying thing". No big deal.

And I wish you good luck with selling your game ( and you too Optimizer ).


[This message has been edited by PH (edited 08-17-2002).]

Rob The Bloke
08-17-2002, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by Optimizer:
Well, the game does not change the mouse speed, it uses the same speed as you have in Windows. Try to disable mouse acceleration it helps a lot. Anyway I'll change paddle movement in the next version.

About joypad. The problem is I do not use DirectX at all and I am not sure if Windows supports it without DirectX.

windows can use joysticks and pads without directX, http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/multimed/joy_42er.asp

but generally direct input is slightly nicer to use IMO.


for the mouse you may want to have a look here for the SPI_SETMOUSESPEED message...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/sysinfo/sysinfo_4p67.asp

Humus
08-17-2002, 10:17 AM
Liked the game ... didn't like the 60Hz in WinXP bug though.

*Aaron*
08-17-2002, 04:01 PM
LordKronos,

My problem is not that you ask the user to buy the game. It would be silly to release a demo that didn't tell the user how to purchase the full version. My problem is the frequency with which you ask. Why the hell would I want to buy the game after playing only the first training level? Or the second? Or the third? Or the... I think you get the idea. If I want to buy a game, I'll buy it after I finish the demo.

If you want to use the OpenGL forums for free advertising, you'd better be ready for some free criticism.

I use WinME. What's your point?

And "Miko" is not a name.

WhatEver
08-17-2002, 07:51 PM
*Aaron*, is it really your job to tell Kronos how to sell his game? You could have told him that you thought he was pushing to buy the game to much without the sarchasm.

Kronos, you could have done without the sarchasm in your first post too.

LordKronos
08-18-2002, 04:33 AM
First, I'm not going to try and debate with you about the nag screens. Its a marketing issue, and my research has indicated that it actually helps.


you'd better be ready for some free criticism.
There is a difference between criticizing and what you posted. Your sarcastic "criticism" screems "I'm a prick".


And "Miko" is not a name.
Really? Now that is a serious problem. Perhaps you should try telling that to the thousands of people who actually are named Miko. And guess what...Miko is also a not-uncommon name for a cat. Go figure.

LordKronos
08-18-2002, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by WhatEver:
Kronos, you could have done without the sarchasm in your first post too.

Sarcasm? Perhaps you read the meaning of my post wrong. I wanted to let some people here know about the game for a while, but in the spirit of not starting an "off-topic" thread and getting pounced on, I decided against doing so. However, now that one was already started, I thought there was little harm in mentioning it here. If I were actually trying to jump on Optimizer for starting the thread, I would have done much worse.

PH
08-18-2002, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by LordKronos:
...Its a marketing issue, and my research has indicated that it actually helps.


The choice is yours of course but personally I think it will have the opposite effect. Take the shareware version of DOOM for example ( and optimizers approach ), an endscreen with ordering details. My point is, if the game is good enough that people actually want more, they'll buy it.
Also, on your website, "buy now" signs are all over the place - annoying your potential customers won't help ( they'll know where to find the ordering form if they came to buy the game ).

I just think the "standard" approach to selling shareware will be more effective.

[This message has been edited by PH (edited 08-18-2002).]

PH
08-18-2002, 04:55 AM
That's meant to be constructive btw. Hope you are not offended http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif.

WhatEver
08-18-2002, 05:25 AM
I guess I misunderstood the tone of your post, but it wasn't the tone that bothered me.

It annoys me that a single post like this is considered spam to some people. Spamming is when somone posts somtehing persistantly. Optimizer was not spamming. What annoys me even more is that you considered this spam and then you did it yourself.

Kronos, you did not spam, and Optimizer did not spam. Calling someone a spammer is a huge accusation and should only be used when you're sure it's spam.

Don't get me wrong Kronos, I have nothing against you, I'm just stating my thoughts.

LordKronos
08-18-2002, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by WhatEver:
It annoys me that a single post like this is considered spam to some people. Spamming is when somone posts somtehing persistantly.

Well, I guess that's debatable. Some people think of it that way, others consider it something that was not asked for. In the case of newsgroups/forum, I think a common meaning of "spam" is a thread that does not properly fall under the name of that group/forum. In this case "OpenGL coding: advanced". I don't particularly have a problem with these kinds of posts (as long as they don't happen too often and clutter up the place), but I was afraid others around here would, hence the reason I was apprehensive about posting earlier. Sorry for the confusion.

AblazeSpace
08-18-2002, 06:22 AM
>> LordKronos
I've published a similar game a few month ago... for free and with source.. because I think it's impossible to earn money with such a game http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif
At the moment I also develop a game called 'Blibs' which is also similar to yours. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif
(but this time its also commercial)

Optimizer
08-18-2002, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by Humus:
Liked the game ... didn't like the 60Hz in WinXP bug though.
I've just fixed it in the new version. Now you can change display frequency.

LordKronos
08-18-2002, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by AblazeSpace:
>> LordKronos
I've published a similar game a few month ago... for free and with source.. because I think it's impossible to earn money with such a game http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Far from it. There is quite a misconception about this, but the fact is that there is a lot of money available in puzzle games, its a pretty big market for shareware developers. The problem is that programming the game isn't even half the work. There is a lot to be done in marketing it effectively, which is where even most great developers fail miserably (and I'm determined not to). It's too bad you didn't have much success with Convey. I kinda liked the game.

*Aaron*
08-18-2002, 12:50 PM
Quoting WhatEver:
*Aaron*, is it really your job to tell Kronos how to sell his game? You could have told him that you thought he was pushing to buy the game to much without the sarchasm.

Yes, it is my job to tell Kronos how to sell his game. And sarchasm[sic] is my middle name, but I spell it without the "h". http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by *Aaron* (edited 08-18-2002).]

knackered
08-19-2002, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by LordKronos
Some of them dont have more than a Riva 128. Let's see you do all of your flashy graphics on one of those. I mean seriously, pretty graphics for the sake of pretty graphics is just silly, especially when in doing so you alienate people with hardware more than 6 months old.


This is an opengl forum - pretty graphics is pretty much all 'we' care about...if you don't want a critique of your graphical techniques, then it's totally inappropriate to advertise your app here.

Just my inevitable negative comment. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by knackered (edited 08-19-2002).]

V-man
08-19-2002, 05:05 PM
Hey kronos!

did you design those levels yourself or do you have some kind of generator?
Very clever positioning of objects in some cases.

Just a few things.
Although I like the effect of no mipmaps, it is better to use them.
I had no sound.
It was opening netscape all the time. Stop it please. Nothing is more annoying than having one program launch another without a warning.

Just put in some shadows, and a better camera.

I give it a 7 on 10

PS: how do you unlock the door for the castle on level 5?

V-man

LordKronos
08-20-2002, 06:39 AM
V-man:
I had a more detailed response, but I forgot to enter my username, and the browser erased my whole response when I went back http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif so here is a quick summary

The levels were made by hand. Random generation wouldn't be very good for something like this. Some of the levels take hours of thought and looking at from different approaches to make sure there are no "trivial" solutions.

About the mipmaps, there were reasons I removed them, mostly to deal with old hardware. I would like to add them back, but its not a priority.

About the sound, I will email you later about this and see if we can figure out what it is.

About opening netscape, that was because you chose Buy Now from the sales screen. I am changing this so that Keep Playing is the default (so there are fewer accidents).

Shadows arent a priority, I'm a lot more concerned with gameplay. I wont be bothering with them unless I get a deal to port this to a console, which I will be looking into later this year.

I would be curious what you didnt like with the camera. However, I tried many camera systems, and the simplest one seemed to work best (it didn't make some people sick like most 3D games do).

I would like to think the game is better than "7 on 10" when you take gameplay and originality into consideration, but I know the graphics dont quite cut it around here, so OK.

PS: Castle on level 5? Was that question intended for Optimizer?

PH
08-20-2002, 06:53 AM
I completed the demo ( it's really quite addicting http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif ) but I did find it difficult to see some of the different hights due to the lack of shadows. I think it would improve gameplay if you added some lightmap shadows ( this should work on old hardware ). Mipmaps would be great too, this can't take that long to add ( at least as a quick solution, you could use auto-generated mipmaps on hardware with the appropriate extension - this is just one or two lines of code to add ).

I too had a few problems with the camera. I would like to see a camera mode that allows you to drag the screen ( hold down shift key and use arrow keys ? ).

Optimizer
08-20-2002, 07:19 AM
Lord Kronos,

Please leave this thread. We mixed two games and I do not understand which questions intended for me and which for you. If you'd like to hear opinions about your game please start new thread. Thanks.

Optimizer
08-20-2002, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by PH:
I completed the demo ( it's really quite addicting).

PH, did you mean my game, Brixout XP?

LordKronos
08-20-2002, 07:27 AM
Sorry Optimizer. If anyone else has any comments or questions for me, please email me directly.

PH
08-20-2002, 07:32 AM
Sorry, Optimizer. You are right, this really should be a thread about your game. My post was for Kronos.

Optimizer
08-24-2002, 10:01 AM
I've just released a new version of BrixoutXP 0.98

New version you can find here:
http://mirror1.sunnygames.com/download/BrixoutXP_Demo_v098.exe (4.5 Meg)

Changes:

1) joystick / gamepad support;

2) added control menu (now player can change paddle speed);

3) added low-resoltion modes (320*240, 400*300, 480*360 … 512*384);

4) now player can change display frequency;

5) level geometry and engine optimization (additional fps to the owners of low-end PC's)

6) fixed minor busg;

Any feedback is appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Optimizer (edited 08-24-2002).]

Rob The Bloke
08-25-2002, 02:52 PM
Dude, just tried out the improved demo....

Like the joypad input within the game but I have one BIG problem.

On the menu screen the cursor permanently moves up, this is either due to one of two things :

a. you haven't implimented a `dead zone` for the joypad, ie an area on the joypad that always sends signals due to the pad being slightly abused due to streetfighter... If this is the case ignore the first 2-5% of the axes of the joypad so that the rest position takes account for that.

b. Another bug in your joypad code that is something very silly that i can't comment on

Other than that looks cool http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Rob The Bloke
08-25-2002, 02:54 PM
Second thing I just noticed, the game doesn't re-aquire the joypad input if alt-tabbed....

Happy to test it again if you haven't got a joypad at home....

Rob

Rob The Bloke
08-25-2002, 03:03 PM
And again, on a playability note, I'd rather see the pad accelerate to a max speed when controlled by keys or joypad to gain controllability.

I know you feel like the user should use the mouse, but bear in mind that

a: the WIN32 mouse accelerates by default so the other control methods should as well
b: you can't expect all players to prefer the same control method as you....

Hope you take this as constructive critisism http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Rob

Optimizer
08-26-2002, 12:12 AM
Thanks for reply. I send you a fixed version of the file to your e-mail at hotmail.com

Please overwrite it over old file BrixoutXP.exe and let me know about bug on the menu.

Also I would be very grateful if you send me file debug.log (it contains debug information). It's located in the game directory.

P.S. I've tested the game at home with Logitech WingMan Cordless Gamepad and everything works just fine. What kind of a joypad do you use?

Optimizer
08-29-2002, 06:18 AM
I've just released a pre-release version of BrixoutXP 0.99
New version you can find here: http://mirror1.sunnygames.com/download/BrixoutXP_Demo_v099.exe (4.5 Meg)

Changes:

1) Enhanced joystick / gamepad support;

2) Renewed sound engine;

3) General optimization;

6) Fixed minor bugs;

Any feedback is appreciated.

P.S. Thanks to Rob The Bloke, you will get the full version for free http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Optimizer (edited 08-29-2002).]

Optimizer
09-01-2002, 11:34 AM
I've just release the official version of Brixout XP 1.0. It can be found here: http://mirror1.sunnygames.com/download/BrixoutXP_Demo_v10.exe (4.5 Meg)

Thanks to everybody for testing and help. As I promised I'll get in touch with 10 the most active testers and provide them with the link to the full game.