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NewROmancer
09-12-2000, 02:51 AM
When will release SGI thr new version of OpenGL? Trust me I really want to know...
I read the specifications of Ogl 1.21 but I don't have it. You see now Microsoft is betatesting DirectX 8...

NewROmancer

Bob
09-12-2000, 02:58 AM
Think the SGI version of OpenGL for Windows is no longer supported, so I guess you will have to wait for MS to release it.

NewROmancer
09-12-2000, 03:10 AM
What do you mean it isn't supported? If they (SGI) make it, it will be supported...

NewROmancer

Bob
09-12-2000, 03:38 AM
SGI no longer bother making new opengl.dll. IF then make a new opengl.dll, you will be able to use the new features, but I hardly think they will make a new one.

NewROmancer
09-12-2000, 03:49 AM
So what do we do now? Because I assume that you know that Microsoft has all the interest to burry OpenGl because is a good thing and it isn't made by them (and they want DirectX to be the only product from the market).

I'll try to make a group that will develop OpenGL further. But first I'll have to think a little at this...

NewROmancer

Bob
09-12-2000, 04:33 AM
Got any press release or similar where they say they are going to drop OpenGL?

OpenGL is way more that just for games. It's used for high end applications like CAD and so, where you generally don't see DirectX at all. So stop supporting OpenGL will make the high end users flee the MS market.

Don't Disturb
09-12-2000, 05:34 AM
I believe OpenGL 1.2 is due with the next release of Windows.

Bob
09-12-2000, 05:50 AM
Yeah, next service pack to Win2k will contain OpenGL 1.2, but I think the whole discussion is about even further releases.

Personally, I think MS will make a HUGE mistake if they stop developing OpenGL.

Chiguire
09-12-2000, 01:11 PM
the ever so big MS can't stop OpenGL just by deciding not to include it in they final releases (because they don't have a significant part of the ARB), and nvidia is the biggest partner of microsoft (besides, it's one of the most important partners in the ARB), and even worse!, the X-Box will have and OpenGL driver, because NVidia wanted it, and not because microsoft decided it, MS is trying with D3D-8 to beat OpenGL in the PC Market, and i don't think that a 5 Year API gonna win over a well developed, old API as OpenGL. Besides, whoever said OpenGL wasn't flexible, didn't use it ever, because the extensions are there just to satisfy the trends of 3d acceleration (the so called SHADERS are supported in opengl by extensions of NVidia, and it could spread amongst other OEMs), so, in my opinion, use OpenGL, and don't ever deceive the community (sounds like a religion!! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif)

zed
09-12-2000, 04:14 PM
"Yeah, next service pack to Win2k will contain OpenGL 1.2, ", well seeing thier track record (it was meant to be with win2000 + then with sp1) im sure we can take ms's statement with a grain of salt.
the thing is we dont need em (ms). The way foward for gl are extensions they are there to be used and exploited

NewROmancer
09-12-2000, 10:10 PM
But if SGI sold the product to Microsoft are they allowed to develop it further? If Microsoft stops developing OpenGL can SGI develop it's own version with the same name?

If anyone know the answers please respond...

NewROmancer

skw|d
09-12-2000, 10:44 PM
README BEFORE YOU FLAME ME

Bah, who cares if they do or not? The opengl32.dll supplied by Microsoft is software-only and is very slow compared to Mesa's software rendering. You usualy overwrite this dll when you install drivers from your hardware vendor anyway.

OpenGL v1.2 specs have been out and supported for some time, nVidia and 3Dfx both support it with their drivers.

What many of you don't realize is that the OpenGL specs are the bare minimum that a driver must conform to, to be called "OpenGL v1.2". It in no way defines what features are included with the driver. I can write my own software-rendering driver and add a function that counts the number of bananas that psycho monkey has, but as long as I meet the specs it is called v1.2 compliant. This is why OpenGL has an advantage over Direct3D. Not because you can have silly functions, but it allows you to add your own custom features that are included with your brand new hardware card. With Direct3D you have to wait for Microsoft to incorporate the features into their API.

You might think that this makes OpenGL messy, that every vendor has their own implementation of OpenGL. But when a driver states that it is v1.2 compliant, that means you can be sure that your code will work on any other system that supports v1.2, so you still have a solid API.

In summary, a new version in OpenGL does not mean new features, but an upgrade in the default standard. Features will always be system specific and thus not part of the default OpenGL specs, instead they exist through API extensions.

/skw|d

Siwko
09-13-2000, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by skw|d:
README BEFORE YOU FLAME ME

You usualy overwrite this dll when you install drivers from your hardware vendor anyway.


Yeah? I should hope not.

Try again (FLAME FLAME FLAME). http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

j/k, but in all actuallity, NO vendor driver should EVER overwrite opengl32.dll. If that were the case, any functionality that the hardware doesn't support would never get rendered (and probably crash your machine) because that code isn't in the driver.

opengl32.dll is the software driver as well as the API entry point to opengl. If it finds that your hardware (driver) supports a function, it deligates processing to that function.

There... I feel better. Hope people get their facts straight before they post.

Siwko

skw|d
09-13-2000, 07:35 AM
You are talking about older 3Dfx drivers, the nVidia drivers I got completely support OpenGL functions and thus overwrites the opengl32.dll. The sames goes for Linux where I get a new libGL.so that comes with the drivers. You should never use incomplete drivers anyways.. and vendors shouldn't release them. I do know my facts.

/skw|d

Blaze
09-13-2000, 07:59 AM
Nvidia just plugs in nvoglnt.dll(opengl installable client driver for nt).

[This message has been edited by Blaze (edited 09-13-2000).]

skw|d
09-13-2000, 05:44 PM
You are right, I just checked my opengl32.dll.. "Microsoft Corporation". I have been thinking that it was handled like the Linux GL drivers, oh well. None of this deals with the topic anyways.

/skw|d

NewROmancer
09-14-2000, 04:01 AM
From what skw|d said I understand that OpenGl is not an API but an standard. If it is so what did SGI sold to Microsoft? The standard? And if every bendor sells his own versions of the functions they all should have the same name and the same number of parameters. From what I understood from skw|d the architecture is so: the server is opengl32.dll and the client is the vendors driver (from what I am thinking right now I believe that this is tha only way how you can implement the described structure). If I'm wrong please correct me.

NewROmancer

Roderic (Ingenu)
09-14-2000, 04:36 AM
OpenGL is an API and a standard.
OpenGL defines the minimal functions you got and what they should do.
Hopefully they don't tell you HOW they should do what.

MS is a licenced user of OpenGL, MS don't own OpenGL.
OpenGL is the property of SGI and/or the ARB review board.

OpenGL.DLL is the basic lib and is partiallly replaced by the vendor specific ICD.
OpenGL.dll is used as a backup, when a function isn't find in the ICD, it's opengl.dll that is used.

NewROmancer
09-14-2000, 09:36 PM
So SGI will develop a new API? This is a question for an SGI insider.

NewROmancer

Roderic (Ingenu)
09-15-2000, 01:08 AM
OpenGL is still improved, I hope to see a OPenGL1.3 including the new nVidia Vertex_Program extension.
This will give us a best, more customisable OpenGL.

(Vertex_Program are called vertex shaders in Direct3d)

09-16-2000, 07:15 AM
The OpenGL architecture board better get a
move on. Direct3D 7.0 supports features
that OpenGL 1.2 does not. D3D 8.0 adds more
features.

I really hope GL can get their thumbs out
of their butts and get going folding some
extensions into the specification proper,
and shoring up the major holes, because it
is so much easier writing to GL. But if not,
you can always write your own wrapper for
D3D to make it easier to use; although that
takes time better spent on other things :-(

skw|d
09-17-2000, 11:10 AM
There will never be features in the base OpenGL specs. The whole idea is to support features through extensions. This allows hardware vendors to release features much earlier than Direct3D ever could because with OpenGL nobody must wait for the ARB to add features to the API. Features by definition are an extension of the norm. So it would make sense to support features through OpenGL extensions.

/skw|d

Nitro
09-18-2000, 03:53 AM
I heard in some newsgroups something about a merger between DirectX and OpenGL, something called OpenTM or similar. it should combine features of both APIs. has somebody more information or is this project cancelled? what's your opinion to this new APi if such a merger takes places? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/confused.gif

Nitro
09-18-2000, 04:03 AM
I think OpenGL's base is the best the world has seen. But if it moves on so slowly as it does today, it would lose his general character. The different implementations are differing very much. For example, I'm not able to use all these NV extensions with my Voodoo. If a new OpenGL isn't coming in faster than it is planned, OpenGL programming will be more and more complicated since you want to support the new extensions but you have also to think of other users not owning a card from NVidida. DirectX shows what is happening if every hardware vendor makes something on his own. They have to do this cause they are in concurence to the other vendors who support for example hardware based shadowing. This leads to the problem that the vendor no 1 has also to implement this. And then it goes on an on an on an afterwards there are 10000 extensions nobody can support. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/confused.gif

NewROmancer
09-18-2000, 10:04 PM
It's called Fahrenheit but SGI got out from partnership with Microsoft. Now it's a new initiative called OpenML with nVidia,3Dfx aso.
And about extensions they are good because the next day a producer launces a new card with new extensions you can use them. At directX you have to wait for a new releas e of the product to take advantage for the new extesion. And if the market is 30% one producer and 40% other and 30% some various each with it's own features what can Microsoft do? Then you HAVE to implement the extesion system or to emulate them softrware from your product.

NewROmancer