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lasso
03-03-2003, 06:06 AM
Hi all!

I'm developing a 3D lighting design software for professional lighting designer that utilizes OpenGL rather heavily. (http://www.capturesweden.com, we're listed att opengl.org as well).

The problem is performance. On my dual P3-500 FireGL (Radeon 7800) everything works very great, it worked fine with my GeForce (1) card as well, though not as smooth in full screen.. ;-) However.. when you switch to just about any laptop it's usually a catastrophy.

The OpenGL code uses stencil (for multipass), depth and alpha buffers and a 24-bit color depth. The bottleneck in a desktop computer is always the CPU and the bottleneck in a laptop is always (so far) the GPU. I'm aware that most users don't have highend GPU's in their laptops, but the huge difference in performance seems rather strange to me anyway.

Any spotaneous comments?


Looking forward to your help.. :-)

/ Lars

amendol
03-03-2003, 07:59 AM
My 1 1/2 year old dell with a gforce 2 go runs at about 1/2 the speed of a comparable desktop with a geforce 2 ultra. There are better laptops out now with the ati 9000, even the nvidia 4200. Compared to the desktops you're using, these laptops should be fine performers.

Jamie

fritzlang
03-03-2003, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by amendol:

There are better laptops out now with the ati 9000, even the nvidia 4200.
Jamie

Are you sure there are laptops that use
the 4200? What manufacturer? I so much
want one but cannot find one.

Cheers.

amendol
03-03-2003, 10:36 AM
Sorry I just assumed that they would be out by now. With a quick search, I couldn't find one. I did find something better though...

It looks like some form of the fx chip is available in a laptop -- with shaders etc...
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/c...n&keycode=6W463 (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=04&oc=WSM50&m_11=W2K&m_22=XPADOBS&m_1=M20&c=us&l=en&keycode=6W463)

Jamie

Lars
03-03-2003, 11:44 AM
THis is an 4200 Go, but with the Quadro modifications. SO this System is optimzed for CAD applications.
There should be coming out systems wih the 4200 Go shortly, but i am not shure how it can stand against the established ATI M9 and the ATI M10 (DX9 capable) which should be out in the next two or three Month.

But even without those, more and more notebooks are equiped with standalone graphiccards like the GF2Go, GF4Go or Radeons. Even the new ALDI (a cheap foodstore :-)) Notebook has a GF4Go.

Lars

fritzlang
03-03-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Lars:
...more and more notebooks are equiped with standalone graphiccards like the GF2Go, GF4Go or Radeons. Even the new ALDI (a cheap foodstore :-)) Notebook has a GF4Go.
Lars

Yes but the GF4Go, just like the Geforce4MX
(the NV15 naming issue remember?) lack features that even the Geforce3 has, such
as vertex programs and depthshadows in hardware.

So the only 'mature' laptop gfxcard at the moment is then the nvidia quadro go. What about these missing features are they in the ATI9000?

Cheers

[This message has been edited by fritzlang (edited 03-03-2003).]

fritzlang
03-03-2003, 12:42 PM
From ati.com

MOBILITY™ RADEON™ 9000 is the first visual processor to fully support DirectX® 8.1 programmable pixel and vertex shaders on a mobile platform.

So to refine my previos question means do I get opengl features such as: arb_vertex_programs, vao, depthshadows etc with this card?

Cheers

Lars
03-03-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by fritzlang:
Yes but the GF4Go, just like the Geforce4MX
(the NV15 naming issue remember?) lack features that even the Geforce3 has, such
as vertex programs and depthshadows in hardware.

But even without the features of DX8 Hardware the notebooks are fast enough to do the stuff he wants to do (it runs on a GeForce 1 and Radeon 7800 both DX7 Level Hardware).

Only the notebooks with simple shared Graphics (SIS... or else) that lack even the hardwarefeatures of a TNT based card, seemed to be forced to pure Software rendering.

I think even older Notebooks with ATI M4 and up would be sufficient (it would not be smooth in Fullscreen of course :-)).

To your Question, arb_vertex_program is even supported on my gf2go, vao not of course, but is on all Radeon Cards 7000 and up. What extension do you mean with depthtexture?

arb_depth_texture is not supported on the DX8 ATI cards referring to http://www.delphi3d.net/hardware/allexts.php
only the DX9 cards 9500 and up have these. But i am not shure what they did in their newest drivers, to support this arb extension.

Lars


[This message has been edited by Lars (edited 03-03-2003).]

Miguel_dup1
03-03-2003, 02:24 PM
I got an alienware laptop. It has a P4 2.4 desktop processor 533 mhz front side bus and with a raedon 9000. Nothing stops that baby...
I run quake 3 on it at 140 fps...

Send a demo and I will tell you how it runs on my my stuff.

Miguel Castillo

[This message has been edited by mancha (edited 03-03-2003).]

ChrisBond
03-04-2003, 11:36 AM
We use a Dell Inspiron 8200, 1.7Mhz, 64MB GeForceToGo4, 1Gig RAM.

No complaints except that there isn't a 128 MB version out there (we have absurdly large amounts of texture that get uploaded).

As Dell changes what you can put on their systems every day, I can't guarantee this card is still out there, but this is the first laptop we have had that our app runs acceptably on. Prieviously, we had an HP with the SIS chipset, on which performance was equally bad in software and accelerated modes. We also had a laptop that used the Rage Mobility, which ran terribly (frames per minute) in software mode and even worse when accelerated. So if this is the kind of performance you're seeing, then a current generation laptop with an actual GPU will probably solve you problems.

-Chris Bond

fritzlang
03-04-2003, 01:46 PM
But are there any laptops out there that do opengl vertex programs in hardware? Does Geforce3 stuff work at all on for example
that Dell laptop?

It should not according to this:: http://www.cs.unc.edu/%7eharrism/gdc2003/

It seems like coding up-to-date opengl on a laptop is hard, the quadro 500 / 700 go being the only exception.

?

Cheers.

MikeC
03-05-2003, 07:02 AM
Here we go, just appeared on the Reg:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/29586.html

NVIDIA GeForce 4 4200 Go is in the new Inspiron 8500 model.

fritzlang
03-05-2003, 09:38 AM
That's brilliant,
Thanks for the good news MikeC.

Cheers