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glfreak
05-19-2001, 09:21 AM
My PC crashes forever when running games that supports both d3d and opengl rendering if set to use d3d version 8.0?!?!?!? At least one game runs slower (Half-Life). Look at Quake, MDK2, SIN, and so, they use ogl. But I'm wondering why Unreal Tournamnet does not look as smooth and as fast as these games when ogl rendering is selected?????? And when I launch it in d3d, it hangs my PC???????????????????????????

ET3D
05-19-2001, 11:32 AM
Certainly this post will fit better in (in reverse order of usefulness, that is, higher numbers are more fitting for the message):

1) The "User Hardware, Software, & Gaming Help" forum
2) A message board dedicated to Direct3D
3) A message board dedicated to your specific graphics card

If you go to (3), then you'll most likely find someone to help you with your problem. I mean your graphics card problem, not the problem that caused you to post this message in a completely unrelated forum without even giving any details that might help someone help you.

MButchers
05-20-2001, 01:25 PM
I Agree - ive had no joy running any of my
older D3D games - even in software emulation
on a system with a ATI Radeon card,however
all my OpenGL games,code run fine.

Dont see why its advanced though.

Hull
05-20-2001, 04:15 PM
Countermeasures against D3D is well under way.

God in the heavens help us get rid of that bug.

Joy be that day when D3D no longer darkens our trails.


/Knight of light and good.

mcraighead
05-20-2001, 05:49 PM
Oh, come on, the OGL vs. D3D "debate" got old about 3 years ago. The winner: both of them! They coexist just fine.

- Matt

Hull
05-21-2001, 05:12 AM
Oh really Matt. Could have fooled me.

It doesnt go away because someone says so.

As long as there is injustice, there will be cries for change.

LordKronos
05-21-2001, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by Hull:
Oh really Matt. Could have fooled me.

It doesnt go away because someone says so.

As long as there is injustice, there will be cries for change.

I agree with Matt, D3D vs OpenGL is irrelevant. They are both more than suitable for most applications. Almost any time you have a problem with either D3D or OpenGL, it is because of 1 or more of the following:
1)bad application
2)bad drivers
3)hardware incompatibilities

You dont mention what hardware/drivers you have these problems with.

Hull
05-21-2001, 06:38 AM
It is not the capabilites nor the implementation of D3D that is the problem.
The problem is that its one big company trying to get advantages at the cost of users and developers. Small people, unable to defend themselves.

I think D3D is a good API, but it lacks some vital things such as portability. This is something Microsoft doesn't care about, because they actually own the OS itself.

This is the core of the nausia, its not a performance thing. If a independent company would have invented D3D, things would probably be very different.

LordKronos
05-21-2001, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by Hull:
The problem is that its one big company trying to get advantages at the cost of users and developers.

I would argue that users and developers are a lot better off than before Microsoft started this. OpenGL has been around for quite some time, but it didnt seem that hardware companies were in a real hurry to all support it. Instead they went off creating their own 3D API's. Microsoft used their "big company" status to the user's/developer's advantage. This is exactly the same as how iD software used their "famous game developer" status to push OpenGL to the state it is today. If they hadnt pushed so hard, I doubt OpenGL would have the driver support it has now.


I think D3D is a good API, but it lacks some vital things such as portability.

Vital to who? It sure isnt vital to me? Each person company has their own portability needs. Some apps need to run on everything under the sun. Sometimes they need to run only under a certain OS. And sometimes, they only need to work on a specific hardware configuration. If OS portability is important to you, then sure D3D isnt for you. But many companies find that Windows only support is more than adequate for them, just as before the days of OpenGL/D3D support, many companies decided that Glide only support was adequate for them.


If a independent company would have invented D3D, things would probably be very different.

Funny you should say that, because D3D was invented by an independant company (I think it was RenderMorphics). Although I dont recall for sure, but I dont think they were all that successful at promoting it.

JD
05-21-2001, 07:47 AM
I'm not so sure that the portability is that vital. Windows machines have like upper 90's percent of the desktop market so it's not that vital that the rest of gamers on other oses get their game too. Other oses would have to become mainstream in order to shift this balance, but the hard thing is not many want to venture into it. Like in last century when few settlers moved to west only because they were given free land or something like that http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif There has to be an incentive, maybe os control is one I don't know. So it's a catch22.

I think the reason opengl was slow to adapt was because 3D technology was still in its infancy and large number of people had to build specific optimized software engines and ogl software was probably too slow for games at that time. Voodoo1 and glide changed that, it was a better solution than software ogl. 3dfx wanted control like ms does that left ogl only accessible to expensive video cards used in workstations. In any case if you want control of os you go code for linux or other open source os. I think to me the control is the only incentive over ms oses. I think dx8 is an excellent gaming api but it's wireframe often used in cads is broken and not so useful in cad apps. Dx is too far ahead to die now but it should have died in 3rd version and ogl replace it but ms wanted control, to do their own thing without consulting others, perhaps they didn't want to wait (red tape).

[This message has been edited by JD (edited 05-21-2001).]