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View Full Version : OT - but it's so important that you will care, believe me



zeckensack
03-23-2002, 06:10 AM
Read about the latest and most sickening episode of 'computer destruction legislation' to be evaluated in the US.
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html

Summary: You write code? You debug code? You use code? Well, if this law ever passes, you're a criminal.

davepermen
03-23-2002, 06:38 AM
i'm swiss, i don't care http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

neon68
03-23-2002, 07:02 AM
I hope not in south-america.

Gorg
03-23-2002, 09:20 AM
This is issue has been running for a few months now(maybe more).

There are a lot of people fighting against it. Intel is one of those. I hope they win for the sake of US. Because I am not going to touch a piece of hardware with those protection chips with a thirty foot poll.

I cannot even believe this is going to work!. People will just stick much longer with their old computers and that will cripple profit of US companies.

And obviously, someone will be able to break their protection one day anyway!

It's absolutly ridiculous.

Humus
03-23-2002, 09:54 AM
I'm just happy nothing like this is talked about in Sweden (well not that I have heard about anyway). I can't see how a system like this would work.

tempocrew
03-23-2002, 09:54 AM
I'm glad I live in Canada

zeckensack
03-23-2002, 10:17 AM
Yes, it's basically old news but it needs a lot of attention.

And I don't think you're safe because you live outside the US. I'm located in Germany, so why should I care?

Simple, if this passes, the international software and hardware industries (and communities) will melt down. You can't make your stuff accessible to US citizens, so you can't publish your stuff on the internet anymore. Look what happened to Skylarov under the DMCA - which is childs play in comparison. Same thing for US citizens, publishing code on the internet means making it available for 'export'. Not to mention that the US are still the largest producer and consumer of both software and hardware. The 'US-law-conformant' hardware will be everywhere. Your biggest market can't legally access your stuff.

I think we're all royally screwed, world wide, if this stuff makes it through.

DFrey
03-23-2002, 10:27 AM
This could be bad depending upon how the final standards are written. If they fail to add exemptions to various catagories of software, they could potentially outlaw my hobby. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif What good is it to write programs if I can't share what I programmed, even if it has no intended media copying functionality?

Gorg
03-23-2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by zeckensack:
B] The 'US-law-conformant' hardware will be everywhere. Your biggest market can't legally access your stuff.

I think we're all royally screwed, world wide, if this stuff makes it through.[/B]

I agree it will be really bad, but maybe not royally screwed, just screwed.

Take DVD players for example. You are aware the DVD are encoded for different regions Noth America, Europe, etc. Well in the US you can pretty much only buy NorthAmerica region DVD players(because of a law), but in the rest of the world you can easely find DVD players that plays all regions.

But obviously this law covers many more things and would give a big hit in the economy that is for sure.

knackered
03-23-2002, 10:49 AM
Crickey!

V-man
03-23-2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Gorg:
I agree it will be really bad, but maybe not royally screwed, just screwed.

Take DVD players for example. You are aware the DVD are encoded for different regions Noth America, Europe, etc. Well in the US you can pretty much only buy NorthAmerica region DVD players(because of a law), but in the rest of the world you can easely find DVD players that plays all regions.

But obviously this law covers many more things and would give a big hit in the economy that is for sure.



Who cares about DVD. Besides, that regional BS has been cracked from day one. The DVD codec has been cracked as well.

Remember the Clipper Chip/SkipJack thing for modems. Dead meat before it was even suggested.

How about PGP?

You guys worry too much about nothing.

V-man

richardve
03-23-2002, 11:06 AM
Uhm.. almost everyone is agains this.. so it's the whole world against the CBDTPA (and Hollywood and some other companies)

The CBDTPA may kiss my royal butt, because I will never ever do what they want me to do.
And I hope all other programmers and associated people will do the same because this may never ever happen (thinking of the current Micro$oft monopoly)

knackered
03-23-2002, 11:23 AM
Sounds like Nazi Germany in the run up to the invasion of Poland.
I know that's where the similarity ends, but the sentiment is almost the same, except its now commerce instead of Nazis.

royconejo
03-23-2002, 11:49 AM
luckily I'm not living in the USA, and I really don't care if I can't release my game there. I even don't care if their hardware comes with some kind of protection.. If it will, I wont buy it and that's it. The same for the hollywood movies.. they're crap anyway. I think the big companies can't live with piracy, but we can live without them.

"the land of freedom".. HA! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif


_> Royconejo.

Gorg
03-23-2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by V-man:
Who cares about DVD. Besides, that regional BS


I know, but if you have a standalone DVD player(one like a vcr) it is a bit annoying for mister everybody to crack the software!



You guys worry too much about nothing.



Agree, I don't even see how this can pass, it would be one of the some most stupidest decision ever taken in the world! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

But there a lot of weird things happening in software in the US, like all those software patents that have corporation hitting small companies with lawsuit. There seems to be one reported everyweek on slashdot.

So, I would not be suprised if smaller scoped, but still annoying and worthless version of this law passes.

V-man
03-23-2002, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Gorg:

But there a lot of weird things happening in software in the US, like all those software patents that have corporation hitting small companies with lawsuit. There seems to be one reported everyweek on slashdot.


LOL! yeah I forgot about this story. People were discussing it on hardware ng I was on.
Remember the woman who filed a patent on her genetic makeup. Patent office wasnt sure if they should accept it!
Then a man (in Australia I think) writes up some fancy papers about a new technology and it gets accepted. It was a wheel and he was claiming it to be his.
V-man

Decimal Dave
03-25-2002, 09:31 AM
I don't think we have much to worry about here. Lawmakers draft crazy bills like this all the time; probably just to put themselves at the center of attention. They almost never get passed (the DMCA being an exception).

Besides...even if it does go through, we'll have more than two and a half years to learn Japanese and move out.

zeckensack
03-26-2002, 05:21 AM
Read about it, and it is indeed new news. A similar thing called the SSSA was already panned, this CBDTPA is the 'rerelease'.

Another point of view (http://www.vanshardware.com/articles/2002/03/020325_CBDTPA/020325_CBDTPA.htm)

[This message has been edited by zeckensack (edited 03-26-2002).]

Decimal Dave
03-26-2002, 08:42 AM
If we have an official national copy protection scheme for software, wouldn't that be even less secure than designing a system on a per-program basis? If the former were implemented, it need only be broken once and then the whole of US software would be compromised.

The whole idea of attaching some protection mechanism to code is ridiculous. What defines code? Wouldn't that include javascript and HTML? What about plain english? Spoken english? Putting copy protection into every spoken word would be a challenge.

jwatte
03-26-2002, 08:56 AM
Actually, any federally approved copy protection mechanism would be allowed. Thus, anyone who could write a bit of code and snowjob a few underpaid federal employees would have a licensing business. Could be quite lucrative, if you had the connections.

I wonder if you could make a LGPL copy protector and then get it federally approved?

DFrey
03-26-2002, 09:41 AM
I was reading somewhere, or maybe I saw it on CNN, that according to this bill, if the copy protection is done with software, the copy protection code must be made open source. But if the copy protection is done in hardware, it may remain proprietary. An interesting incentive for manufacturers to go with hardware copy protection.

[This message has been edited by DFrey (edited 03-26-2002).]

Robbo
03-28-2002, 08:51 AM
I cannot believe the insanity of this. Actually, scrap that; I can believe the insanity of this. People who don't know **ck all about community and how the software business actually works (in large part) taking bungs from big corporations to make them more profits. Actually, any high-school dim-wit will see that it will make them less profits. These corps are so ***ing lazy its unbelievable. Why don't we just pay tax right into their bank accounts? Whats the point in beating around the bush!

dorbie
03-28-2002, 11:48 AM
Hollings is known as the "Senator from Disney" for good reason. As for you Canadians, you have your share of bad legislation, what about the proposed tax on recordable media that goes straight to the record companies just INCASE you use the media to record music. In Germany I believe they have had similar legislation for years on recording DEVICES, that includes a PC bacause in might be used to record CDs. Neither of these taxes are token ammounts, they are very significant burdens on the consumer, and retrograde when you consider what it does to the adoption of technology. Protectionism of the worst kind.

Gorg
03-28-2002, 01:18 PM
Yes, the tax is stupid, but at least we can still burn stuff!

Dodger
03-28-2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by dorbie:
In Germany I believe they have had similar legislation for years

More like for decades... in Germany there's what is called the GEMA-Gebuehr, which is a fee that is included in the purchase price of any tape, blank CD, etc. (not for recording devices though, at least AFAIK), which, yes, goes straight to the music industry to 'reimburse' them for the loss taken from copied music. Kind of ridiculous, but personally, I could deal with a fee on blank media better than with a law that more or less makes software development a criminal act.
As for the proposed law, I'm not even sure if it completely conforms with the US constitution (which I'm not familiar with so correct me if I'm wrong).

To make a simple point to a big subject, I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said

'He, who sacrifices freedom for the sake of security, deserves neither.'

IMO he hit the nail right on the head.