PDA

View Full Version : Comments on the P10 anyone? Matt?Cass?



TheGecko
05-06-2002, 10:33 AM
Just wondering what you all think.Is it all going in the right direction or what? And how will nVidia compete with this with the release of a GeForce5 (if there will be a 5).

I'm kinda curious as to how nVidia and ATI will respond to this.I'm in the market for a new video card and everytime I make up my mind on one card,they go ahead and release another http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/tongue.gif

AdrianD
05-06-2002, 10:51 AM
3DLabs strikes back !

lgrosshennig
05-06-2002, 10:54 AM
I am really looking forward to the P10.
My engine should run nicely on it http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

(The NV_Evelators did not really gave me what I needed in regards of higher order surfaces)

But sure, I would like to know as well what Nvidia & ATI ( in no specific order http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif ) are working on right now.

Regards,

LG

dorbie
05-06-2002, 11:00 AM
NVIDIA doesn't have to compete with GeForce class systems, the P10 is targeted at a different market. The P10 is probably positioned higher end than a top of the line Quadro4, but time will tell since you still can't buy one. NVIDIA's CEO has said their new architecture to replace GeForce4 Ti class systems will be due out in August this year, this will certainly have versions positioned for high end gaming systems and cost much less than P10 based systems. If you really want a P10 you better start saving or hope that Creative does something exciting with 3DLabs when they aquire them (that would be cool). If you are interested in a card for games & hobby graphics then a P10 is probably out of your league, but don't worry NVIDIA & ATI will come out with something interesting this year unless they screw up.

TheGecko
05-06-2002, 11:17 AM
I thought the P10 was consumer level that competes with the GeForce and Radeon series.

zed
05-06-2002, 12:46 PM
>>the P10 is targeted at a different market<<

personally i dont think this is a wise move, the distinction between the two groups that used to exist is blurred now, 3dlabs i believe are gonna make this card cheap enough to be of interest to consumers IMO

Korval
05-06-2002, 01:34 PM
Here's a quote from the article:


We first got a whiff that 3Dlabs was exploring new opportunities for mass market graphics last summer. Trevett revealed a few sketchy details to us, on the promise of secrecy. We met with Trevett and John Schimpf, director of developer relations, on two other occasions to discuss the new architecture, codenamed P10.

This is definately a consumer-level card. Why do you think 3DLabs has been pushing OpenGL 2.0 for the past year? The high-end market doesn't really need programmability or most of what OpenGL 2.0 offers over 1.0. No, 3DLabs wants to have the first OpenGL 2.0 compliant card out there.

haust
05-06-2002, 01:37 PM
the p10 architure is flexible enough to be targeted at both consumer and high end markets. It will be just like the geforce and the quadro from nvidia, one for consumer/business market the other the workstation market....

[This message has been edited by haust (edited 05-06-2002).]

dorbie
05-06-2002, 04:17 PM
My bad, I look forward to it! 3DLabs has had a dry spell in the consumer arena so it would be great if they could get back in the game with a full featured product. It'll be real interesting to see how this pans out. 3DLabs have had world class OpenGL implementations for the longest time now, and a development like this could deliver that quality to the rest of us in an interesting product if they really can bring P10 to the unwashed masses. It's looking like we'll have at least 3 major new architectures to play with by the end of the year.


[This message has been edited by dorbie (edited 05-06-2002).]

zeckensack
05-06-2002, 04:41 PM
To make a long story short, the prospect of being able to get one of these by the end of the year has completely destroyed my interest in the R200, NV20 and NV25. I'll continue chugging along on my craptastic Radeon 1 in the meantime.

jwatte
05-06-2002, 06:51 PM
When Creative bought e-mu a few years back, they did so mainly to get access at a $500 product e-mu had just developed. Because of the awesome scale Creative can achieve, they could sell the same chip (with cheaper components) for $50, and moved on to rule the world with what's affectionately known as the SoundBlaster Live! series (Emu10k1).

Seems they're set on trying to do the same thing for graphics. It'll be interesting to watch.

jwatte
05-06-2002, 06:52 PM
Oh, and regarding ATI/nVIDIA responses: I imagine they've been working on their DX9 level hardware for a long time, and will have it ready in time for the actual DX9 API release. That level features many interesting enhancements, although not full OpenGL 2.0 equivalency.

dorbie
05-06-2002, 08:14 PM
Zeckensack, it's NV30 that NVIDIA claims it will launch in August. If this has destroyed your interest in both NVIDIA and ATI futures then I suppose 3DLabs' marketing dept. has done their job reguardless of whether their engineering dept. does.

zeckensack
05-06-2002, 08:28 PM
Well, I said it destroyed my interest in the current crop of chips. NV30 and R300 are still not specced out for the public, so I can't say anything about these. I'll just have to wait and see.
OTOH I'm really aching for an upgrade right now. I want some hardware to play around with, programming wise. To me that would have been an 8500LELE or some such, not top of the line speed-wise but very capable hardware.
But I know I'd just have to throw it away and get myself a P10 asap. As I see it right now, that will be the ultimate toy for a hobbyist graphics programmer like myself. NV30 and R300 might qualify as well, though I doubt it. AFAIK they won't be anywhere near as flexible. But again, we'll have to wait and see.

Ahh, wth, maybe I'll still buy something in between, prices are good. It's just that it won't feel great anymore after having seen the P10 diagrams and stuff.

Elixer
05-06-2002, 08:42 PM
The card is still vaporware, although the feature set does peak my attention. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

I just hope Creative leaves 3Dlabs alone, or they will have another mess on their hands, like the SBlive driver fiasco that still plagues the SBlive.

I also wonder why Creative gobbled up 3Dlabs? Maybe they are also going in the chipset business? Or if the power requirements are low enough for the p10, maybe a new notebook chipset? http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif
That seems like the trend now-a-days.

TheGecko
05-06-2002, 09:09 PM
$#^%%^! Here I was about to order my GeForce4 4600 and now the P10 is announced. Now I have to wait till this fall to see how the P10 matches up to the GeForce5 and decide on a new card.<sigh> Will this cycle ever end?

dorbie
05-07-2002, 01:28 AM
OK, now I see what you meant zack... whatever the version of NVIDIA or ATI card you're no longer considering purchasing, someone at 3DLabs has done their job well.

davepermen
05-07-2002, 01:46 AM
sure not, that cycle is called EVOLUTION http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Humus
05-07-2002, 12:39 PM
Looks like the graphics scene will get a little more interesting again. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif We'll have at least four serious players in the closest future at least. Now Matrox will announce their next card on 14 May. It's official:
http://www.matrox.com/mga/

Hope it'll have a more fullfeatured OpenGL driver than the G400 had.

jwatte
05-07-2002, 06:58 PM
Has anyone actually used the new DX8-level SiS cards? Do they work well? What's their OpenGL support level?

BadMmonkey
05-08-2002, 12:07 AM
Elixer... how is the chip vapourware when it is already close to A2 (release quality) silicon?

It was also my impression that 3DLabs allowed themselves to be taken over by Creative so they would have the clout and resources to mass-market/produce the thing... a mutually beneficial agreement I would say.

I'm with zeck though... I was considering an upgrade from an el-cheapo gf2mx to something like a gf4-ti4200, but now I want to hang off for a bit longer... again.

Buying a video card has to be the most stressful thing in upgrading/building a computer these days http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif I used to get a new one every second generation, but now I agonise over when to draw the line due to the "revolution" of programmability shifting so much lately...

zeckensack
05-08-2002, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by jwatte:
Has anyone actually used the new DX8-level SiS cards? Do they work well? What's their OpenGL support level?I'd really like to test one. Really. Just as much as I would have liked playing around with a Geforce 3 or a Radeon8k5. It's just that I really can't afford buying all the new cards as soon as they come out, let alone building multiple machines just for a 'hobby'. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/frown.gif

This is all just a spare time distraction for me atm.
But interesting nonetheless http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by zeckensack (edited 05-08-2002).]

santyhamer
05-08-2002, 04:46 AM
I think the upcoming NVIDIA's DreamForce NV30 will kill all graphic cards in the planet!! No Parhelia, P10, Sis or whatever card will survive!!! I think it will be really impressive: 2Ghz memory, 800Mhz CPU aprox, 350 M/Tris with 4 vertex/pixel shaders, 12x FSAA, full programmable pipeline under DX9 and OpenGL2.0 ...

Nutty
05-08-2002, 08:15 AM
Hahahahaha.. where did you read that Santyhammer??

I think those numbers are a little off, but I'm certain NV30 will be quite impressive also.

Whatever happens, it's sure gonna be fun and exciting with loads of powefull new tech coming out.

Nutty

Elixer
05-08-2002, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by BadMmonkey:
Elixer... how is the chip vapourware when it is already close to A2 (release quality) silicon?


I simply mean that it is not out yet, and we really don't know anything besides what the marketing guys spew out.

I see no difference between this and the Bitboys chip... they both just spit out a few specs, but no actualy hardware for us to try, so I am more inclined to wait and see before I really say *wow*. http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/smile.gif

Now with that out of the way, I also just read the specs for the new Matrox chip, it also looks nice (on paper) http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/biggrin.gif

Humus
05-08-2002, 09:33 AM
I would say that 3DLabs and Matrox are a little more creditable than BitBoys, they have actually produced some kickass products. But of course we need some real reviews of the actual hardware before we can judge it.

Elixer
05-08-2002, 12:51 PM
Yeah, they are just a bit more creditable! http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/wink.gif

I do wonder about the Matrox card, they say 2MB on chip cache. Could this be eDram?

Some other features : http://www.tecnation.co.uk/picture.php?url=newspics/matrox.jpg

Zak McKrakem
05-09-2002, 06:35 AM
http://www.3dlabs.com/gamedev/