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k_szczech
10-02-2007, 01:13 AM
It's october allready - anyone knows what's going on with OpenGL 3.0? C'mon, we're starving here ;)

I expect it will be officially announced this month. Perhaps on my birthday?

dmdrummond
10-02-2007, 11:22 AM
when is your birthday?

Zengar
10-02-2007, 12:04 PM
Look at his profile :)

k_szczech
10-02-2007, 12:28 PM
So, I assume no one knows anything about the release of OpenGL 3.0.
I guess they'll take us by surprize then.

In the meantime we can discuss my birthday and my profile :p

By the way. I've found this nice picture (more less by accident, when searching for info on drivers):

http://www.gamebrink.com/forums/phpThumb.php?src=/forums/imgcache/21915.imgcache

I've been working on subsurface scattering and human skin rendering myself recently - lot's of fun when it starts to work :cool: Too bad I have absolutely no time to work with OpenGL recently.

Brolingstanz
10-02-2007, 01:23 PM
Hellknight looks a little miffed...

Probably still sore about getting his little bottom spanked ;)

P.S. GPU Gems 3 has some terrific stuff on realistic skin rendering.

Jan
10-02-2007, 01:54 PM
The first image looks like a photo. Even the eyes with the reflections look absolutely real. Sure that one is rendered?

Waiting for your birthday takes way too long. Mine is earlier. However, in my opinion tomorrow or today would be even better.

Jan.

k_szczech
10-02-2007, 03:55 PM
Damn right it looks real - it's OpenGL :)

Seriously - I'm not sure if it's really rendered.
Eyes have some reflection (or shadow) on them. If it's shadow, then I don't see why it shouldn't be rendered - in my water shader I also disable sun reflection on certain areas. If it's self-reflection then it's either offline rendered, a photo, or reflection cubemap (each eye with it's own reflecting world and character's skin - which I don't believe is the case.

Light sources look artificial. There is blank background, but you can see clothing in the corner. So it's either photo made in studio or a damn good rendering.
One thing is sure - it's not impossible to achieve such quality.

I just found this image and thought I'd share it with you :) The most important thing is - it's inspiring. When you look at some of these images you just want to sit down and implement such skin shading yourself.

And yeah - I consider my birthday to be an ultimate deadline. I just don't want to get too old for this, before specs are available :]

ZbuffeR
10-02-2007, 05:28 PM
Seems way too good to not be fake.
Well for instance the last shot was rendered in Brazil (offline renderer) ...
http://3dtotal.com/home2/gallery/getgalleryitem.asp?id=2717
This one is great but offline too (3dsmax, zbrush):
http://www.fausto3d.com/popups/modeling/legionary/07.jpg

Jan
10-02-2007, 05:41 PM
I don't doubt that it's possible, i just didn't expect such quality from a non-software renderer. I would say it is a photo or it is a damned well designed model and certainly rendered offline, with more complex lighting-models, than used for realtime-rendering.

But, yes, you are right, it is inspiring and so it doesn't matter, whether it's rendered or a photo (though since all other images are rendered, i assumed this one might be too).

Jan.

elFarto
10-04-2007, 02:19 PM
That top left image looked familiar, looks like it's by this guy:

Clicky (http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=9839)

Quite possible rendered in modo, not OpenGL.

Infact all those OpenGL screenshots look just a little bit too good.

Regards
elFarto

plasmonster
10-04-2007, 03:00 PM
The gentleman in the botton right corner looks a little like the actor George C. Scott.

Zengar
10-04-2007, 03:39 PM
The bottom left picture is the Nvidia's Human Head demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A838dclFr5U), so it is real. As to other OpenGL images - they really look too good :)

dorbie
10-04-2007, 10:19 PM
It's rendered.

The real issues are content (& scanning) and algorithm (lighting, subsurface scattering, specular), it's not got a lot to do with the API used for rendering, so beware the marketing hype.

GPU Gems 3 has a lot of detail on the rendering of the lower left image. The center top image is the Crysis engine.

elFarto
10-05-2007, 01:19 AM
The center OpenGL image is from here (http://www.fausto3d.com/) (the Legionary project).

The bottom right image is by the same guy, and is here (http://faustodemartini.cgsociety.org/gallery/437431/) .

Regards
elFarto

Zengar
10-05-2007, 05:01 AM
Originally posted by dorbie:
The real issues are content (& scanning) and algorithm (lighting, subsurface scattering, specular), it's not got a lot to do with the API used for rendering, so beware the marketing hype.
Of course, you are right, but I remember some clowns posting an article in the internet about how much better DX10 will be then current API. As "proof", they posted "screenshots" (taking some ugly images as examples for what GL and DX9 can do). I guess this one is a reaction :)

k_szczech
10-05-2007, 06:34 AM
I guess this one is a reactionSounds likely. Not on my side of course - I didn't put these "OpenGL 2.1" labels there ;) I guess there are about 50/50 offline and realtime.

The clowns you mentioned get lots of valuable gifts from Microsoft for their "efforts".
I've posted some links here few months ago.


The real issues are content (& scanning) and algorithmAnd that's the only truth about realistic rendering. I guess most of guys on this forum are marketing-proof. Just look at the main page:
41% - Linux, 35% - Windows XP. I use XP as my primary, but that doesn't mean I think it's better than Linux.

elFarto - thanks for the link to top-left image.
This one is very inspiring. I'm about to do some character modelling myself, so thanks alot! :)

Rick Yorgason
10-05-2007, 04:39 PM
I can list where all those images were taken from, and none of them are particularly good examples. The OpenGL images are actually the least credible.

The lower-left OpenGL image was taken from the nVidia Human Head demo, which shows off subsurface scattering, and it's real-time, although it's only a head.

The rest of the OpenGL images, however, were taken from the Mudbox3D samples. Mudbox3D, while it uses OpenGL, is just a modeller, not a renderer, so there's absolutely no indication that they were rendered on hardware. A couple of those images are Doom 3 models, and while the models were eventually rendered in-game, they were never rendered at this detail; these models were just used to create the normal maps for the low-poly models.

All the DX10 shots are from Crytek's Crysis, and were released in mid-2006; the game itself is due to be released next month. The top shot in particular was showing off subsurface scattering, and the full shot revealed that they were only rendering the head. Presumably this can all be done in real-time (and at the very least, in hardware) but it may be too early to tell.

The first DX9 shot was a screenshot of the Unreal 3 Engine's tools, and the second was a pre-release promotional shot of the Berserker from Gears of War. Both are rendered in-engine, but not in-game.

The last two DX9 shots are from Unreal Tournament 3, which is to be released late this year or early next year. The first could potentially be in-game, but the second was definitely a promotional shot.

So this image is pretty useless when comparing libraries, and comparing libraries based on the end result is pretty useless anyway (unless you're comparing DX9 to DX10) because you can get the same end result with any of them. There's much better reasons why OpenGL and Direct3D are better than each other!

k_szczech
10-05-2007, 05:19 PM
So this image is pretty useless when comparing librariesYes, it is. As all images are. Comparing DX9/10 and OpenGL is not the goal of this discussion.

The goal of this discussion is to kill some time waiting for OpenGL 3.0 ;)
So, we look at some nice renderings (be it DX, GL or software renderer), talk about nothing in particular and eventually discuss my birthday :p

And maybe, just maybe someone will still remember what was the first question and answer it.
I guess it's a false hope - people tend to pay more attention to pictures :)

Posting this picture was more about seeing something inspiring from time to time.

Rick Yorgason
10-05-2007, 08:18 PM
Yeah, I know. I wouldn't be here either if I wasn't trolling the forums for the last month hoping for some OpenGL 3 info.

spooky_paul
10-08-2007, 04:33 PM
Did they make any announcement that it would be delayed and if so for how long? Would we this time get an vendor independent SDK like DX is being distributed?

k_szczech
10-10-2007, 05:47 AM
Did they make any announcement that it would be delayed and if so for how long?Not that I know of. It's very quiet - I hope storm is coming.

Jan
10-12-2007, 12:44 PM
I'm a bit disappointed. It's the only thing i had wished for and didn't get for my birthday :(

Jan.

dv
10-13-2007, 03:43 PM
Yes, it is disappointing indeed. They don't say ANYTHING. No "we need some extra time", no "it's delayed", no "hang on" ... NOTHING. Come on guys, talk to us :)

Roderic (Ingenu)
10-15-2007, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by dv:
Yes, it is disappointing indeed. They don't say ANYTHING. No "we need some extra time", no "it's delayed", no "hang on" ... NOTHING. Come on guys, talk to us :) ditto !

k_szczech
10-15-2007, 07:17 AM
C'mon! Time is running out - my birthday is next week :)

plasmonster
10-15-2007, 01:24 PM
May we get GL3 by your birthday, and Mount Evans by mine (this summer).

Either way, a somewhat belated happy b-day to Jan, and an early one to k_szczech.

Specs for b-days, and drivers for ... substitute favorite/earliest holiday ... ! What could be better, besides getting them both at once?

:)

Jan
10-16-2007, 09:46 AM
Hehe, thank you :)

So your birthday is "this summer"? When is "this summer" in Seattle? In Germany the "meteorological" autumn already started on the first day of September (http://naschkontrolle.de/blog/2007/07/03/herbstanfang-2007).

Jan.

plasmonster
10-16-2007, 03:59 PM
Beautiful pics :)

Summer here runs June 21 - Sept 22. Summer's the best time to be in Seattle, very little rain and nice temps. Winter on the other hand gives us a bad wrap for being miserably rainy :( But you do get used to it, some even learn to like it (just stay indoors and drink coffee by the gallon) :)

k_szczech
10-22-2007, 03:49 AM
3 weeks have passed. There really should be some info available now. :confused:
Of course nobody insists to release OpenGL 3.0 specs right now. If it needs some final touch then so be it - we can wait. What we really need is some information. Unless this is intended, psyhological game, hehe :p

Speaking of weather - I've been driving a gokart this weekend - pretty much fun. Especially when you had the opportunity to drive it on both dry and wet surface at once. We had sunny weather which changed into half-frozen rain :D with strong wind which caused the rain to become more horizontal than vertical. Tons of fun - I recommend it :cool:

k_szczech
10-22-2007, 03:53 AM
PS. You have 35 hours, 6 minutes and 14 seconds left. Then it's my birthday and I want OpenGL 3.0 on my birthday.

Toji
10-22-2007, 06:45 AM
My secret little fantasy is that Nvidia/ATI have secretly been asking the ARB to hold off on the spec because their drivers for it are aaaaaallllllmost there...

But yeah, can we at least get a "We're sorry but it's not ready yet because we're making it awesome?"

Jan
10-22-2007, 07:45 AM
Hehe, no doubt it will be awesome :)

As i mentioned in some other posts, "end of september" was quite an optimistic deadline, in my opinion. I don't blame anyone, that it takes longer. Though i really would like to know, whether i should be expecting it in 2 weeks, one month, two months or even later. Right now i am checking these forums like 10 times a day, because there is no info whatsoever.

Gokart is really fun. I tried that a few years ago for a day. Very exciting.

Jan.

Stephen A
10-22-2007, 10:21 AM
I don't blame anyone, that it takes longer. Though i really would like to know, whether i should be expecting it in 2 weeks, one month, two months or even later. Right now i am checking these forums like 10 times a day, because there is no info whatsoever.Aha, now it makes sense! That why they are pushing back the release, to increase traffic to this site. :)

But yeah, gokart is awesome.

k_szczech
10-23-2007, 02:20 AM
Another topic on OpenGL 3.0 release has been started on this forum:
OpenGL 3.0 Specification ? (http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004731#000000)
Maybe we should invite these guys to our topic?
Or maybe we should start new one. Hell, let's spam this forum! ;)

PS. Aren't we supposed to get Mt. Evans this year?
If they can still deliver us both this year (somehow, somewhere), then my reaction is predefined:
][_, ([]) ][_,

As if I didn't get frustrated enough at work...

My personal countdown clock (I'll get mean if it counts to 0 before GL 3.0 specs release): T-12:39'46

Kumar K
10-25-2007, 01:36 AM
k_szczech ,

Many happy returns on your birthday.
Enjoy and have fun during this time, who knows
you may not find time after GL 3.0 release !!!

--
Kumar.k

k_szczech
10-30-2007, 04:28 AM
End of october.
I hope it's not a false hope when I hope it's not the end of hopes. :p

By the way - in my last post I suggested to spam this forum. I must admit, I was amazed by quick reaction from admins. They immediately shut down this forum for 24 hours and prevented such actions. :p

So, some of us are now "OpenGL Gurus", heh? I wonder what the criteria are. If it's a replacement for "Frequent contributor", then all you need to do is to post enough comments (like this one for example) and you become a Guru. "We are all assimilated" as my fellow students would say :cool:
This is more less how I become a Guru - I never shut up. :D Maybe there should be another ranking for people with 1000+ posts? Something like "Flak monkey" or "Wicked sick".

Zengar
10-30-2007, 06:20 AM
I'm a guru too :) It's atually wierd because I haven't written any OpenGL programs in years

P.S. I loved the ranking system. Is it gone now?

k_szczech
10-31-2007, 08:46 AM
Yep, it's determined by number of posts, and thresholds have just been changed, so we're no longer Guru's now:
0 Newbie
50 Contributor
100 Regular Contributor
500 Frequent Contributor
1000 OpenGL Pro
2000 OpenGL Guru
5000 OpenGL Lord

I think it's a bit redundant to display number of posts and this rating at the same time if it's actually the same. The number of posts/user rating was better I think. It was motivating, but not just to write posts, but to write reasonable posts with verified and valuable information.

And now accept my apologies, but I just can't help myself:

All praise Knackered - our OpenGL Guru! :D

Ok, I'm having a laugh here, but I bet it's nothing comparing to the laugh Knackered must be having right now :)

Relic
11-05-2007, 06:09 AM
Damn, 2633 posts left to "OpenGL Lord" :p, but at least I have my five stars. :p

Jan
11-05-2007, 09:28 AM
Why do you have stars now, and everybody else hasn't, oh mighty Guru? Oh, now i see! You outsmarted me, unsurprisingly.

Time to praise your name for a few more hours.

Jan.

Relic
11-05-2007, 09:44 AM
Thou shalt not question your Guru!

I think somebody rated me again. You can do it when logged in under the user's View Profile option, but I haven't found the rates I received, yet. I had 25 five star rates before the forum change.

Let's see if something special happens when dorbie reaches 5000. ;)

Jan
11-05-2007, 03:18 PM
Oh, i actually thought you simply uploaded a picture of five stars as your avatar! ;-)

Yeah, 5 stars too, i only had 4 earlier ;-) Nice to see the feature back in again.

Jan.

ZbuffeR
11-06-2007, 05:04 AM
Relic, Jan, I re-ranked you, can you please do the same for me ? :D

Relic
11-06-2007, 07:12 AM
Heh, I haven't asked an OpenGL question here (no need to :o).
How should I rank you then? Five fishes, oh wait, wrong forum.
Have fun with your stars.

k_szczech
11-07-2007, 10:25 AM
Ok, so we have guru's, lord's and superstars here.

Such a fine bunch we are, so what's our next move?
Oh, wait! I have an idea:
1. We rank everyone in this thread with 5 stars
2. We make jokes until our post count hits 5000
3. Once this is accomplised we will all be assimilated and we can go back to discussing DirectX 3 vs OpenGL 2.1.


Oh, i actually thought you simply uploaded a picture of five stars as your avatar! ;-)
Good idea. And there's enough room for 6 stars on avatar :p

Well, if the option to hide your ranking would be still there then I could replace each star with aircraft and still have room on the avatar to put a Royal Air Force logo below.

Ok, 1066 posts to go...

ZbuffeR
11-07-2007, 11:16 AM
My secret desire is to beat jwatte in the "Top posters" on the left, as his 5 last posts dates back to early 2006 :cool: :D ...